Leica 7x42 Ultravid HD vs. Zeiss 7x42 BGATP (1 Viewer)

I always thought that birders looked for binoculars that gave TRUE colors across the visible spectrum.......not coating enhanced colors...that always came into play for hunting type binoculars....so the game animals would stand out from the surroundings by certain colors being overly enhanced..... guess I read the birding crowd wrong......

gunut said:

I always thought that birders looked for binoculars that gave TRUE colors across the visible spectrum.......not coating enhanced colors...that always came into play for hunting type binoculars....so the game animals would stand out from the surroundings by certain colors being overly enhanced..... guess I read the birding crowd wrong......

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G
You are not necessarily wrong and not necessarily right.
All the bins manufacturers have their own anti-reflection coatings and these all balance out the colour spectrum that they pass in a slightly different way. This can be for many reasons, some of which are related to the manufacturer's idea about the best colour balance between daytime vision and twilight vision as the human eye changes how it processes light from daylight to twilight. This gives rise to a different colour balance reaching the eyes of the bins user and different folks find these different colour balances attractive or maybe not so attractive.

Don't forget many birders use their bins for viewing stuff other than birds including the view from their home or their place of work etc. I am sure many hunters do the same and indeed look at birds too. Folks have different preferences for the colour balance of these views.

Plus different folks have different perceptions about what 'true to life colours' really are and we all get used to using our favourite bins probably get used to thinking those colours are natural.

Almost certainly no manufacturer makes bins that are entirely faithful to nature's colours under all lighting conditions.

Lee

Troubador said:

G
You are not necessarily wrong and not necessarily right.
All the bins manufacturers have their own anti-reflection coatings and these all balance out the colour spectrum that they pass in a slightly different way. This can be for many reasons, some of which are related to the manufacturer's idea about the best colour balance between daytime vision and twilight vision as the human eye changes how it processes light from daylight to twilight. This gives rise to a different colour balance reaching the eyes of the bins user and different folks find these different colour balances attractive or maybe not so attractive.

Don't forget many birders use their bins for viewing stuff other than birds including the view from their home or their place of work etc. I am sure many hunters do the same and indeed look at birds too. Folks have different preferences for the colour balance of these views.

Plus different folks have different perceptions about what 'true to life colours' really are and we all get used to using our favourite bins probably get used to thinking those colours are natural.

Almost certainly no manufacturer makes bins that are entirely faithful to nature's colours under all lighting conditions.

Lee

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My HD-Plus seems to really bring out the yellow range of the spectrum, which for birding purposes, is pure gold, metaphorically speaking.

Hello all
I have had two Zeiss Dialyt 7x42 BGAT, an earlier (1993) and the latest version "classic" (2004).
In 2009 I decided to try to upgrade and had the opportunity to compare all the 7x models from the main European brands of that time (Zeiss Victory 7x42 BGAT; The Leica Ultravid 7x42 (not HD) and the newer 7x42 HD; the Meopta 7x42 and two Swarovski, perhaps together with an Optolyth if I remember correctly).
The side-by-side 7x42 test lasted two or three hour: I excluded the Optolyth, the Meopta (yellowish cast) and the Swaros straight away, then the older Ultravid not HD.
The real, final duel was between the Victory and the Ultravid HD: both 7x42 were impressive binoculars. At last I chose the Zeiss Victory because it accomodated better (am spectacle wearer) and because of its huge FOV (150m/1000m just like the older Dialyt BGAT 7x42). The differences were subtle and mainly subjective: the contrast in the Leica Ultravid HD was better and outstanding in my memory. Overall, the Victory seemed to me more neutral and "quiet" (I use it 98% in raptor watching during migrations). The Nikon EDG was not launched in the market yet and-or not in that optical shop of course.
The seller withdrawn immediately and with no problem my beloved Dialyt 7x42....

dwever, post 18,
I agree and I disagree with respect to your statements in post 18.
First of all tranmission spectra tell us two things: the amount of transmission is informative about the brightness of the optical system and the spectrum as a whole tells us something about the color balance and total color impression of the binocular image. They do not give information about contrast transfer, but that is a consequence among others of decreasing optical errors like color dispersion, spherical aberration, coma, astigatism etc. And considering the small price increase of the Ultravid HD-plus compared with the Ultravid-HD my guess is that Leica did not change the optical system of their binoculars at all exept for including HT glass somewhere in the optical system, which may decrease color dispersion.
I will try to ad some spectra we measured from which we conclude, that Leica did improve the 8x42 but not that we could find the 8x32 and the 7x42 is just as good as other 7x42's we measured and some perform even better.
Gijs van Ginkel

Another attempt in addition to my previous post,
Gijs van Ginkel

Gijs van Ginkel said:

Another attempt in addition to my previous post,
Gijs van Ginkel

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Are Leica's coatings responsible for the nice rich colors in the Uvid or
is it something else?

I have to say despite the SP prisms and lower transmission measurements, the apparent brightness of the 7x42 UV+ seems more than satisfactory to me and is exceptional on dreary/gray days.

Gilmore gril, post 27,
Yes, I assume that Leica has tuned its binoculars for the color reporduction they have by playing with the coatings. I agree with you that the 7x42 is a very nice instrument and a pleasure to use and its brightness is also influenced of course by its 6 mm exitp puil despiTe the somwhat lower light transmission as compared with some other brands.
Gijs van Ginkel

When it comes to brightness, you have to have a yardstick bino handy to do the direct comparison, otherwise it's all subjective.

Visually, something like the Terra 'looks' pretty bright but it is not - the illusion of brightness seems to come from the warm colour bias that enhances yellows and greens.

Hi Gijs, post 26, (as you said, very useful, indeed!)

In the chart, the Meopta B1 8x32 appear to be a little brighter, a way to say, than the UV HD+ 8x32. My B1 8x32, an excelent binocular, sharp and with little CA, has a slight but definitive somewhat yellow cast view.
My question is: Has this yellow tint something to do with the light transmission? At first view I would think it should be detrimental...

Thank you!

PHA, post 30,
If you compare the spectra of both binoculars you can see that there is a small difference in equilibrium between blue-green-yellow-red, the spectrum of the Ultravid HD-plus is a little bit flatter, but it should not generate a real yellow cast voor the Meopta, but a slightly more "warm" image impression so to speak.
Gijs van Ginkel

Helo Gijs,

Thank you. Yes, agree, in this case, warm is more accurate than yelow.

PHA

fguo79 said:

Just curious, is the high transmission sparkle unique to 7x42 HD plus or present in 8x42 HD plus as well, maybe to a less extent?

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To explain why people fall for the Leica HD Plus image, and to correct the false assumption that this term is simply talking about transmission, those answers might be revealed in a review of the use of the term "Sparkle" by reviewer Thomas Mennle RE the Leica Ultravid 8x42 HD Plus. Now please, this is not to assert superiority of the Leica image, but simply to give explanation and context to why certain people have such affection for the UVHDPLUS Leica image with reference to the original question by this thread's OP; and, the OP's follow-up question regarding sparkle quoted in the paragraph above.

The paragraphs below are quotes from Mennle's two reviews of the Leica UVHDPLUS 8X42's http://www.greatestbinoculars.com/index.html. One is simply a review of the Leica instrument; the other an 8X42 shootout with the Zeiss HT, Zeiss SF, Nikon EDG, Swarovision 8.5X42, Swarovski SLC, and the Leica if I haven't forgotten any. Brackets [] are used once to make a comment not coming from Mennle. Quotation marks and bolding have been added.

UVHDPLUS8X42: "Most saturated colours, combined with great sharpness and microcontrast in the center yield outstandingly beautiful images. The Swarovski SLC is most similar colourwise but duller with less punch and sparkle. The Ultravid is a bit more prone to peripheral crescent flares than all others, nevertheless macrocontrast often class leading together with the Nikon EDG. This fits with the high colour saturation, because strangely the Ultravid manages to keep the image center almost free from veiling glare. The view is very easy even with open pupil, and the field of view feels much wider than it actually is. Mechanical quality is good, and industrial design is marvelous. For my taste it has the most beautiful image with that magic sparkle that gets you addicted immediately."

"The Leica Ultravid 8x42 HD Plus offers compactness, great mechanics, best looks, and extremely beautiful high contrast images with saturated colours - and a high transmission sparkle other SP prism designs don´t have yet. It is more prone to peripheral flaring than the others, but the beauty of the image center is magic - compact and very easy to hold, with warm, saturated, glowing colours and superb contrast, breathtaking in sunshine as well as on a dull day or in the twilight."

"I don´t care about brightness really, even with the Zeiss HT I cannot see more in the twilight, but I want that magic sparkle in daylight vision, and it is in the clarity and vibrancy of the colours. The Ultravid has it, the HT has it, the Habicht 8x30 has it. The EDG, SE porro, SLC, Swarovision and SF don´t quite have it." [Note, as mentioned in Post #18, sparkle is not defined simply in terms of transmission, but also in the "clarity and vibrancy of colors"].

UVHDPLUS: "Most beautiful image with my favourite colours, high contrast, perfect sharpness, and awesome high transmission sparkle."

I found those reviews very subjective, and just interesting reading, nothing more.

Jerry

3 Yes, as an SF owner I think you would agree that we all are prone to value certain reviewers over other reviewers under certain conditions.

NDhunter said:

I found another review of the new SF models, and that is by Roger
Vine, Scope Reviews.

He is mostly an astro reviewer, and does a very nice review of the Zeiss,
and I agree with his thoughts.

Jerry

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The talk of ''high-transmission sparkle'' is mostly hyperbole as the HD + is no brighter than the original Ultravid - which puts it distinctly mid-pack.

The ''sparkle'' it seems, comes from the Schott HT glass.

james holdsworth said:

The talk of ''high-transmission sparkle'' is mostly hyperbole as the HD + is no brighter than the original Ultravid - which puts it distinctly mid-pack.

The ''sparkle'' it seems, comes from the Schott HT glass.

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James:

Any reviewer that uses the word sparkle in their description of any
optical characteristic is highly suspect.

Sparkle does not have a value.

Jerry

Guys... can there be different degrees of sparkle... maybe high and low and moderate, or maybe on a scale of 1 to 10 (kinda the universal scale for rating everything)??? OR is this one of those things where "SOME THING S SHINE AND SOME THINGS DON'T!"... Can you please go back and update your reviews to include sparkle???

Sparkle may not have a value. But, apparently it does sell binoculars, which to manufacturers may have a whole lot of value.

Coming to your favorite manufacturer's spec sheet soon.... "Sparkle Rating".

CG

Dear all,
When I met a beautiful girl, she had so much sparkle that I fell for it, so we married and we are happy ever since, the sparkle is every day around me. I did not measure her transmission spectrum.
Gijs van Ginkel

Gijs,

Your sparkle could be because you live in one of the happiest places in the world http://www.findingdutchland.com/six-fun-trivia-about-utrecht-happiest-places-in-the-world/


Leica bins do exhibit Gezelligheid B