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Caspian Tern, but a bit of moan about digi scoping (1 Viewer)

Colin,

Just look what you have started now!!

I love the forum, and email too, but this thread does clearly illustrate that it is very hard to tell if someone is frowning or smiling when posting - however many "smiley" faces are used!

Looks like I'm barred from reserves for being grumpy and Tom will have to be run out of town for behaving like a Welsh Nationalist from the seventies!!

PS - all swifts remaining stubbornly "common".
 
tom mckinney said:
I think all RSPB hides should be burnt to the ground - the only thing they attract is dudes!

:)

I'm with you there mate!

Twitchers should have priority admission to all birding sites and suppression made a capital offence.

Regards

Ken.
 
tom mckinney said:
I think all RSPB hides should be burnt to the ground - the only thing they attract is dudes!

:)
"Real" birders shouldn't go to RSPB sites, they should leave them and the hides for us dudes!.:bounce:
 
ColinD said:
I feel guilty that I've been watching it too long whilst others haven't even seen it yet. It's old fashioned manners. I'm too sensitive I suppose.

I'm not talking about stopping other people seeing the bird, but I really don't see why I shoudl move on after a few minutes. However easy the bird may be to ID, for me that's not the whole point. Sure I want to ID a bird, but I also want to watch it's behaviour, see how it flies or feeds.
As for manners - I'm happy to let others look through my scope, or to help people get on 'the bird' - but I see nothing bad mannered about enjoying it myself.

ColinD said:
Not true. The tripods are behind the seats, but nobody can sit on the seats because you can't get near them.

Obviously different design of hides to the ones I use locally where there are often tripod users standing and other sitting. Like I said, if your struggling to get to the seats why not say excuse me - it really does work. With my scope on a tripod it's far easier to let others have a look than if I'm balancing it on the window of the hide.
 
postcardcv said:
I'm not talking about stopping other people seeing the bird, but I really don't see why I shoudl move on after a few minutes. However easy the bird may be to ID, for me that's not the whole point. Sure I want to ID a bird, but I also want to watch it's behaviour, see how it flies or feeds. QUOTE]

So as far as your concerned if you get to the hide first, you can stay there as long as you like? It wouldn't bother you if the hide can only fit 20 people with tripods, you'd happily let another 100 wait outside for an hour or two, while you studied the birds behaviour? Or do others have to make way for the people outside, but not you?

Lets reverse the situation. Your standing at the back of the queue of 100, waiting and waiting and waiting while others inside study its behaviour. Then it's gone, and you missed it. How do you feel then? Now I know why I try to keep away from hides!

By the way, I'm not saying this is what happened with the Caspian Tern, I'm speaking hypothetically now.

Colin
 
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ColinD said:
So as far as your concerned if you get to the hide first, you can stay there as long as you like? It wouldn't bother you if the hide can only fit 20 people with tripods, you'd happily let another 100 wait outside for an hour or two, while you studied the birds behaviour? Or do others have to make way for the people outside, but not you?

Lets reverse the situation. Your standing at the back of the queue of 100, waiting and waiting and waiting while others inside study its behaviour. Then it's gone, and you missed it. How do you feel then? Now I know why I try to keep away from hides!

I'm fairly sure that it was clear from my post that I was not talking about depriving others the chance of seeing the bird, I'm all for everyone getting to see it. I certainly wasn't saying that the first there should hog the space and not let others see the bird. However I would leave with a fairly hollow feeling if I watched a new species for five minutes and then moved on.

Sure Caspian tern is an easy ID (I've never seen oen, but know they ain't hard), but what the books don't tell me is how they fly - is it the same way as the smaller terns? Personally I find the movement and behaviour of birds very interesting and am amazed that this attitudes should be disapproved of so strongly. Especially after on a previous thread you talked at lenght about the value of teahcing children to value all aspect of nature. This was how I was bought up, as a result I find behaviour can be as (if not more) interesting than plumage.

It seems to me that your thoery of seeing the bird for a few minutes and then moving on is the sort of 'twitcher' behaviour that is so often villified on this site. I'm a birder at heart and I regulary twitch locally, but I get very little out of seeing a bird breifly and ticking it (though sometimes that's all the bird gives you) - I'd rather spend time watcing a commoner bird than glimpse a rarity.
 
The answer to this is that there is no answer.

Hogging the hide indefinitly whilst people queued outside would be anti-social, leaving early to let others in can sometimes be frustrating.

Well organised twitches involving small hides often "ration" the time allowed to watch - it might not be popular, but at least it gives everyone a fair chance.

If you are ever lucky enought o be inside and there is a queue, give some thought to the others waiting, equally, if you are in the queue waiting, try to be patient!
 
postcardcv said:
I'm fairly sure that it was clear from my post that I was not talking about depriving others the chance of seeing the bird, I'm all for everyone getting to see it. I certainly wasn't saying that the first there should hog the space and not let others see the bird. However I would leave with a fairly hollow feeling if I watched a new species for five minutes and then moved on. Sure Caspian tern is an easy ID (I've never seen oen, but know they ain't hard), but what the books don't tell me is how they fly - is it the same way as the smaller terns?.

So how long do you give it before you decide you've seen enough to allow somebody else a chance? Say the birds resting, and when it flies it leaves for good. You've seen it fly, but other people have missed it. If you had let them in half an hour earlier, they'd have seen it. Is that fair? You say your not depriving others, but unless somebody else leaves, you are. People have to leave for others to get in. What if everybody in the hide weants to see it fly?


postcardcv said:
Personally I find the movement and behaviour of birds very interesting and am amazed that this attitudes should be disapproved of so strongly. Especially after on a previous thread you talked at lenght about the value of teahcing children to value all aspect of nature. This was how I was bought up, as a result I find behaviour can be as (if not more) interesting than plumage.

It seems to me that your thoery of seeing the bird for a few minutes and then moving on is the sort of 'twitcher' behaviour that is so often villified on this site. I'm a birder at heart and I regulary twitch locally, but I get very little out of seeing a bird breifly and ticking it (though sometimes that's all the bird gives you) - I'd rather spend time watcing a commoner bird than glimpse a rarity.

I'd like to spend a lot of time watching the bird myself, but as with all crowded situations, a little give and take is neccessary, and we have to realise that we don't have the freedom to do what ever we want. There are other people involved who are affected by our actions. I don't leave the hide because I've ticked the bird and have no further interest in it, I leave the hide because I have consideration for my fellow birder (even if he doesn't always have consideration for me), who might have travelled 300 miles to see this bird. If I want to study wildlife, I don't do it on a major twitch in a hide, I do it by myself or with a few friends in the field, (which is exactly where the kids should be, but that's another arguement!).

Colin
 
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devon.birder said:
Tom, the hides at Bowling Green RSPB, Radipole RSPB and Lodmore RSPB were all burnt dowm, I trust that you were not involved.

It's Lodmoor, Roger. I know from when I went there to burn the hides down.

I do love people without a sense of humour.
 
tom mckinney said:
It's Lodmoor, Roger. I know from when I went there to burn the hides down.

I do love people without a sense of humour.

You are quite right Tom, I must have been there a million times since the early 1970s and I still can't spell it.
Incidently I think one of your posts last year was the funniest yet that I have ever read on BF and I have it saved on my computer and it still makes me laugh when I read it. I bet you can't guess which post it was though. Roger
 
ColinD said:
Just experienced the highs and the lows of modern day birding. When I learned that my sons needed dropping off at their friends in Rainford for the afternoon, my initial reaction was great, Martin Mere here I come. However before setting out, I decided to have a quick look at Birdguides just in case. I had mixed emotions when I saw that there was a Caspian Tern at Leighton Moss, on the Eric Morecombe pools.

Mixed emotions, because at less than an hours drive, and being one of the commonest species I have never seen in the UK, I felt I had to go for it, but I really have dipped on so many Caspian Terns in the past, that it hardly seemed worth the effort to inevitably be told that it had gone, probably to Martin Mere knowing my luck!

Anyway, I went, but with a heavy heart. Loads of cars on the car park when I got there, I avoided making eye contact with the birders walking back from the hide, because I wanted to leave the bad news to the last minute. I reached the hide, could barely open the door because of the masses inside. I could no longer delay the inevitable - Me: "is IT still here?", Crushed and apparently dieing birder: "No, last seen an hour ago". Dear God, hides are horrendous places! I half expected him to finish with the words "Help me, please".

I didn't even go in the hide, and five minutes later I'd stomped back to the car telling myself that I hate hides at the best of times, so I'm certainly not going to wait in a crush worse than at football match, just in case a stupid tern decides to come back, on a gloriously hot sunny day. I decided to even avoid Leighton Moss itself and went to a quarry at the side of the reserve, to look for flowers and butterflies.

Here I spent a relaxing hour on my own, sunbathing amongst various orchids, and watching a variety of butterflies, dragonflies and day-flying moths go about their business. My intention had been to get off home from here and forget the tern. However, the red mist that had decended on me when I was told that the tern had not been seen had now lifted, and I sent my mate a text. Me: "Any news on the Caspian Tern?" Friend: "Last seen at 4:00pm". It was now 4:30pm, so it had obviously returned in my absence. Little did I know, at 4:00pm it was apparently on the reserve itself NOT the Eric Morecombe Pool.

So armed with half the information I needed, I headed back to the wrong place, to find the car park almost empty. Just as I started walking towards the hide though, a stream of cars started to pull onto the carpark. A miracle had happened! The tern had quit the reserve and was back on the Eric Morecambe Pool, and for once, I was leading the pack, and boy, nobody was going to overtake me!

Even so, the hide was full, but at least I got in, and got onto the bird almost straight away, a massive tern, dwarfing Teal and Redshank alike, with a carrot for a bill. Briefly it was seen in flight.

And here's the little moan. Not a big moan, just a little one, so don't take it personal. Back in the old days, when a bird was as obliging as the Caspian Tern eventually was today, birders would set up their scopes, have a good look, on rare occasions take a few notes and then go, making way for others after just a few minutes. Photographers had their own windows in hides. These days, everybody is a photographer, and apparently has the right to sit there for hours, often taking up a whole window to themselves, trying to get yet another crappy photo of the bird, while the queue grows outside the hide. At least before digital, you were paying for each photo and therefore took a limited number.

To be honest, I'd like to see all tripods banned from hides, that would double their capacity straight away. I had my scope with me, but not my tripod, and trying to force my way to a window to rest on, past the heaving masses clicking away was quite an adventure, but the point is, when you got past the forest of tripod legs, there were actually seats available at the front!

Oh well, I saw one of my bogey birds superbly, and escaped the hide to tell the tale, and had a bloody good day. Oh, and there were kids in the hide as well. Don't tell me they're learning anything about nature in a situation like that.

Colin
this is exactly the reason i didnt go up for this bird,i just knew it would be like this (its bad enough with a spoonbill on the reserve) just a sign of the times im afraid,with the advent of digiscoping,people need to use a tripod,in the past id just take a scope into a hide and rest it on a window,in fact i hated tripods,horrible cumbersome things which took up loads of room ,now I cant do without one,although i hate to admit this,at least you saw the bird in the end..thats the main thing I suppose,remember dipping on one at killington reservoir years ago,,must have been desperate going their..
 
oh by the way,if i ever find a rarity on my local reserve,the hide of which is usually empty,id certainly make sure ive taken loads of excellent shots before broadcsting any news,the thought of fighting my way through a throng of birders to try and get a seat in a place I visit regularly does not appeal..sorry if this sounds selfish but thats the way birding has gone these days.....
 
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