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Big Gulls in Taiwan (3 Viewers)

Today's only surprise (and a taxon I've seen far too few of so far this winter) was a third-winter vegae. No attractiveness anywhere on this bird, just a grubby-looking head and an experession of pure menace. Fantastic! I've aged this one primarily by the tail band, which should be full on second-winters (only a trace on this one). It gets ID'd primarily by the extensive streaking and blotching on its head, but also by the pale saddle.

Attached: Third-winter vegae (ID'd by extensive dark head markings, pale saddle, traces of tail band).
 

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The gorgeous big first-winter Common Gull also put in an appearance, but I never managed to get it at the right kind of angle, despite it coming much closer. It was joined by an adult when it moved offshore, but too far away to do much with.

This one is a Kamtchatka Gull
 
I was so occupied with trying to get better shots of the Common Gull that I almost missed the 'oddball' when it turned up. In fact, I only picked it out in my 'bins when it was feeding against the sun and the wingtip pattern was just striking! Fortunatley, I had (unwittingly) managed to get some shots of it when all the gulls were nearer. What, exactly, do you make of this?

(I have posted blow-ups of this bird here: http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=340337. It is clearly paler than any of the taimyrensis it is with, slightly smaller, and with shorter arm and proportonally broader wing. It had a fish in its throat for all the time it was flying around, making its throat bulge.)


This one could be a Thayer's Gull
 
A disappointing way to end the bank holiday here today back at my small harbour. The bird with the thayeri wingtip failed to show, and it was hot and sunny to boot making photography difficult. Best bird was the by now familiar Common Gull, so yet more pictures of that to start with. (Common Gull is far from common here; if I see more than two a year then I've having a very good year for Common Gull!)


Kamtchatka Gull
 
I think first winter it's the correct age for first bird. Moult on coverts is very fast, as in heuglini . Pretty much typical of these two subspecies

As for the adult ones, the p10 tongue of last one is too long for a pure taimyrensis, in my opinion. It's longer than half the feather and rectangular ending, maybe a few cachinnans/barabensis genes in it? ;-)

My comments refer to Yesterday posts at 15:56 and 16:02

Thanks again for your comments!

I'm quite sure now that these are first-winters (e.g. #49). I think that active replacement of mantle and coverts with adult-like feathers is a very useful field mark for identification of taimyrensis (with mongolicus worn and vegae not replacing anything).

As regards barabensis, I have read somewhere (it must be in Malling Olsen and Larsson) that this may well just be some kind of 'southern' taimyrensis. This kind of makes sense to me.
 
Sorry to maybe jump in at the wrong place, but seeing your excellent instructive images of mongolicus and taimyrensis made me think of an unidentified LWHG in Goa recently. How does the attached compare with birds you're seeing in Taiwan? (photo taken 05.12.15 at Morjim, N.Goa by Mandar Bhagat. Only this one shot available.) The standard large gulls here are barabensis and heuglini, but this isn't fitting in with either.

Mark
 

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Sorry to maybe jump in at the wrong place, but seeing your excellent instructive images of mongolicus and taimyrensis made me think of an unidentified LWHG in Goa recently. How does the attached compare with birds you're seeing in Taiwan? (photo taken 05.12.15 at Morjim, N.Goa by Mandar Bhagat. Only this one shot available.) The standard large gulls here are barabensis and heuglini, but this isn't fitting in with either.

Mark

Hi Mark,

Feel free to jump in anywhere! If I saw that here in December I would call it taimyrensis without a second thought (in spite of the white head).

Things that look better for that form to my eye would be: small head on a very long neck, long legs, pale eye, and incomplete primary moult. I'm not the best at judging these things (and always look forward to corrections), but isn't P10 old-looking and not yet dropped (and contrasting with the newer primaries with the nice big apical spots)? In Taiwan at least, mongolicus has completed its primary moult by December (and, rightly or wrongly, I expect this should be true of all of the 'southern' taxa), whereas taimyrensis invariably still has quite some way to go.
 
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I think this pic has been taken in May, with primaries moulted up to p7 and p10 still old. Is that correct?
If so, this looks ok for a Steppe Gull
 
I think this pic has been taken in May, with primaries moulted up to p7 and p10 still old. Is that correct?
If so, this looks ok for a Steppe Gull

No, the photo was definitely taken 5 December. Naming convention for dates can be taken either way!
taimyrensis has often been quoted as occurring in this area, but I've never seen any photos that look other than subtle shades of heuglini. There was some thought of mongolicus for this bird, but seeing the images on here, that doesn't look likely.
Thanks for the input and discussion.

Mark
 
Just to ensure that anyone following this thread leaves it completely sick of taimyrensis gulls, here's a whole load more taken today.

Features common to adults now are mid-dark grey upperparts, bright bare parts, pale eyes, single medium-sized mirror P10 (with or without smaller mirror P9), greyish 'hand' from below (contrasting with white coverts), and underside of P10 with short diagonal tongue.

The first birds below still have traces of winter head streaking.
 

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These next two have much whiter heads. Black bill markings in adults seems to be a pretty common feature in taimyrensis. The second bird has a more rectangular-shaped tongue, which is interesting!
 

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The next two include a very 'pale-end' individual, but the distribution of head streaking, single mirror, grey under-secondaries, and P10 tongue best fit taimyrensis.

The second bird is a first-winter, which I'm a lot more comfortable with IDing right now!
 

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The last bird here is more odd as it has a very long tongue down the underside of P10. It also looks rather more 'compact' around its head for some reason, but all other plumage features fit taimyrensis better than anything else.
 

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The fun and weirdness was all at my inland site, where the composition of the gull flock seemed to have changed since the last time I looked (very few adult mongolicus). Viewing there is usually challenging as you face south, and if the sun is out it gets awkward!

The first birds I clapped eyes on were the two in the first photo.

The sitting bird is still growing its P10 and has a dull green bill. It also has something 'a bit thayeri' going on in P7. I can only assume from the timing of moult, the pale saddle, and the dull bare parts that it is vegae, but where are all the head streaks?

The standing bird has the beady-eyed look and bright bill of a mongolicus. However, the saddle is a bit on the dark side and the bill much longer than any mongolicus so far. I did manage to get this one in flight when it left, and still it did not seem typical. Pro-mongolicus features were the dark eye, crisp-looking plumage, pale 'hand' (from below), and the pattern of P10. However, pro-taimyrensis features were the lack of a mirror on P9 and the fairly narrow trailing edge. Not sure which one of these I prefer, really.
 

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Interesting the long p10 tongue of this last individual. Maybe some steppe gull /caspian gull influence?

I suppose this could be a possibility, but perhaps an unlikely one. I only have Malling Olsen and Larsson to go at as a reference, and in there at least these two forms do not come into contact (breeding) with taimyrensis.

I've only started looking at the underside of P10 on these birds this winter, so my sample size remains small. That said, a short diagonal tongue does seem to be a strong 'pointer towards' taimyrensis, and a longer tongue not the norm!
 
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An unlikely day to turn out quite as well as it did, being still, sunny, and hazy all day long. Nothing would come into my harbour at all, with the big gulls loafing around on a sandbar about 1 km offshore. To my dismay, there was a white one with them, which flew north (instead of coming into the harbour) on the rising tide. I was fortunate (very) in being able to able to track it down later in the afternoon.

Glaucous Gulls are always exciting wherever they turn up, but they are doubly so at this latitude!
 

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Back at my inland site, the light was surprisingly good late afternoon. The presumed vegae from #77 above was once more present and not just sleeping this time. On the spread wing, the tip to P10 and the longish and uneven-edged tongue are out for some kind of pale-end taimyrensis, as is the rather broad trailing edge. The late moult and dull bill are also not right for mongolicus. All of the above do fit vegae, though, so it does look like this is an adult which has simply completed its body moult early.
 

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