Pavel
Well-known member
A possible hybrid Wheatear captured by my friend Dimitar Dimitrov on 27.08.2020 near Cape Kaliakra, northern Black Sea coast of Bulgaria. Please help ID. Many thanks!
Perched it just looks like an (Eastern) Black-eared but this tail pattern is really strange... I've never seen EBEW showing that. But a hybrid? Who should be the other parent? I would guess it's bird with just an unusual tail...
Some strange kick back on the tail surely! Pied x EBEW wouldn’t produce a tail like this. It looks more like a Hooded Wheatear tail but there’s nowhere in any of the ranges these two species would connect that’s close to Bulgaria is there apart from maybe Southern Turkey - are there any known hybrids of Hooded/Pied/EBEW? I wonder if it’s just a case of partially leucistic retrices?
So Pavel, are you saying the tail pattern of your bird is within the ‘normal’ variation for melanoleuca/pleshanka (even when hybrid genes are not involved or for all intents and purposes look perfect anyway for Pied Wheatear - regardless of ‘purity’?)- It seems this is what FS means. If so, what leads you to think the OP is a hybrid?
it’s a bit worrying there can be this lack of reliance on tail pattern criteria. Anyway, I learned something here as I have never seen so much white on the tail of either sp.
"My bird" is a typical kind of "finsch-looking" hybrid (PW x EBEW) and I would say that the tail pattern is within the ‘normal’ variation for melanoleuca/pleshanka but not the most frequent case, e.g. to see such a tail you need to spot let say between 15 and 30 different birds. However, I am not a specialists on hybrids and will pass your reasonable questions to Fabian.
Hi Pavel
We had a miscommunication- I was referring to the OP bird when I said ‘your’ bird in my previous post when I should have said ‘your friend’s bird”.
(Clearly ‘your’ ‘Finch’s’ style PW x EBE does not have a tail like the OP bird and is a more obvious hybrid)
I was asking in my previous post if FS would regard the OP bird (sent by your friend) as having a tail that falls within this degree of variation to which he refers. If so, my question is what makes you think it is a hybrid then because it looks otherwise fine for EBW?
Thanks!
Hi Deb,
Please see Fabian's answer, as follows:
"In my opinion, it is most likely a pure melanoleuca" FS
Hope it helps!
Greetings,
Lol - Helps who!? How did this thread become about me looking to ID your friend’s bird :-O You were the one asking for help so FS’s answer on the identity of OP is for your benefit surely?
You didn’t answer my question to you as to why you thought this bird was a hybrid despite FS’s view that the tail falls within normal variability ?? (As per your opening post)
(Thank you however, for sharing FS’s response to your ID query - tail pattern in pure Pied and pure Black-eared Wheatear are clearly more variable than most of us realised.)
??You are welcome!
??
There seems to be a real language problem.:-O
So, to recap so I am clear, the reason you started the thread was to ask for help from BF members here because you thought the OP bird was a hybrid.
So, why did you believe your bird is a hybrid? (presumably you run your Wheatear IDs past FS anyway). Do you see something (other than the ‘normal variant’ of tail pattern) that gives you reason for suspecting a hybrid and starting this thread?