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Barn Owls (1 Viewer)

I would find it hard to have a correct view of the situation as i do not hold enough info or information.

The various bodies will no doubt have good reason to say no. I must say that if one of the main problems is suitable habit then I would agree that a "go ahead all" policy would not be a good proposition. Is this where the licence issue subject comes in? How do you view a "selective" release policy and would this be of long term benefit? I am keen to hear any points which could give further incite into this.
 
Sleeper said:
I would find it hard to have a correct view of the situation as i do not hold enough info or information.

The various bodies will no doubt have good reason to say no. I must say that if one of the main problems is suitable habit then I would agree that a "go ahead all" policy would not be a good proposition. Is this where the licence issue subject comes in? How do you view a "selective" release policy and would this be of long term benefit? I am keen to hear any points which could give further incite into this.
Click to expand...
The large groups in the consultation mainly replied by supporting a total ban.
For those involved in the actual release schemes thought that a total ban was not the answer.
As we have discussed on another thread habitat is the main key in the problem of many species and with Barn Owls it is finding suitable habitat that is far enough away from any major roads, with a good supply of prey species and without any other established pairs. A mamouth task that takes over two years to set up because you need to find other relative sites.
The last licence application to release barn owls stated in part : If a wild barn owl occurs within 2km of the site you propose for release,a licence will not normally be issued. Also applications to release within 0.5km of a major road will be refused.There was end of year reports, maps, ringing it was a complicated task to get it right. So I can understand it in part, but a total ban ?.
One point that was agreed with the release of captive bred birds was that it helped replace the many birds (3 out of 4 young birds die soon after leaving the nest ) that are killed on roads each year ( Est 5,000 ) or die through weather or starvation.
But the argument, especially in this case comes back to suitable and sustained habitat are perhaps the only answer and hope that the low numbers can survive and re-establish.
Suricate
 
Suricate said:
Also applications to release within 0.5km of a major road will be refused.
Suricate
Click to expand...

Was any thought given to railway lines Suricate? I only mention this as I used to do a fair amount of rabbit control on BR property at one time and it was far from unusual to find dead owls on the lines. On one occasion I found a dead Tawny and Little Owl, and an injured Tawny, in little over a mile of track. I realise that both these species hunt in a different manner to Barn Owls, but the quartering method often used by Barn Owls might actually make them more susceptable to injury than the aformentioned species. Railway lines - even more so, perhaps, than motorway embankments - attract all manner of wildlife. Having stood close by speeding trains on many occasions I can imagine how easy it would be for a bird to come to grief in the turbulant air created by such a massive, fast moving object. I also wonder whether BR's (I know it's not BR now, but the name escapes me) current policy of removing trees from the railway embankments might make these places even more attractive to hunting Barn Owls, therefore increasing the number of casualties. As, generally, few people visit railway lines, I wonder whether these casualties may be overlooked. I know the point is a little irrelevent now that the licenced breed and release scheme for Barn Owls has been halted (wrong decision IMO) but I'm just interested in your opinion.

saluki
 
close shave..............

My partner has JUST informed me that she saw a Barn Owl "skim over the top of the car infront" of her this evening at 16:45 near Sunderland.

She feels that if it hadn't been for the Bankside Hedging that the bird would have been a metre lower & consequently have been hit...!!!!!

How many Lives has an Owl got.............nevermind a cat.

Regards Stevie.

PS Saluki, i wonder if anyone has super-imposed the 'known' Barn Owl distribution over a map of the Uk's high (well relatively high) speed rail network.

S.
 
Hi Folks,

May be I'll get shot down in flames!

But, In my part of the Country....Cambs/Norfolk border I've noticed more Barn Owls this past few months than at any other time recently..(In the past 10 years).
Along with Little Owls..they seem to be increasing in numbers.

Dave.
 
DON'T shoot the Messenger.....

Hi Dave

I Agree, read post #8 above.

Unfortunately in my local area, Many old churches are either being knocked down or modernised into houses. Also we have a nasty habit up here of filling up our quarries with household rubbish.

Personally i believe theres a GREATER NEED for safe, quiet NEST sites as there is for Habitat provision.

I think the future isn't as black as some people make out.
In my experience ALL Local Owl populations are woefully under-estimated.

Stevie.
 
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saluki said:
Was any thought given to railway lines Suricate? I only mention this as I used to do a fair amount of rabbit control on BR property at one time and it was far from unusual to find dead owls on the lines. On one occasion I found a dead Tawny and Little Owl, and an injured Tawny, in little over a mile of track. I realise that both these species hunt in a different manner to Barn Owls, but the quartering method often used by Barn Owls might actually make them more susceptable to injury than the aformentioned species. Railway lines - even more so, perhaps, than motorway embankments - attract all manner of wildlife. Having stood close by speeding trains on many occasions I can imagine how easy it would be for a bird to come to grief in the turbulant air created by such a massive, fast moving object. I also wonder whether BR's (I know it's not BR now, but the name escapes me) current policy of removing trees from the railway embankments might make these places even more attractive to hunting Barn Owls, therefore increasing the number of casualties. As, generally, few people visit railway lines, I wonder whether these casualties may be overlooked. I know the point is a little irrelevent now that the licenced breed and release scheme for Barn Owls has been halted (wrong decision IMO) but I'm just interested in your opinion.

saluki
Click to expand...
Hi Saluki,
In the DETR ( now DEFRA ) guidelines for the release of captive bred Barn Owls there is no direct mention of railway lines it was mainly related to major roadways.
Obviously all major hazzards should have been taken into consideration and I suppose that would in many cases been put down in the Licencees Application for permission to release Barn Owls.
I do not honestly know of if there are records relating to railway deaths, but it does kill a percentage of birds and I think your point relating to the Railways clearing trees and bushes will encourage more barn owls.
One possible reason for rail lines not to be questioned is that many lines have been established for years and the birds have adapted to it. New roads that do run in Barn Owl Territory take a very heavy toll. In one recent case in Lincolnshire where a by pass was opened within two weeks both established male and female Barn Owls were dead due to road kill.
The estimated number of pairs in the wild is approx 4,000 pairs which seem to have stabilised. But in 1932 there were an estimated 12,000 pairs ?. Do you think that perhaps developmental growth has pushed the Barn Owls to a new natural and sustainable number ie 4,000 prs.
My personal feelings for what it`s worth is that it is still very important to keep a limited number of licenced breeders, but continue to pressure the Government as with other species for better understanding of the needs of all species and make full provision for sustained natural habitat, not in isolated pockets.
There are too many barn owls kept in captivity over 100,000 and as these birds breed so prolifically controls need implementing and the fear of hybridisation and escape is one of my concerns. There are many of the 35 subspecies kept.
I still do an amount of rabbit control as this helps with the Buzzards.
Suricate
 
I hope this is not a completely stupid question, but if there are 100,000 captive Barn Owls, and they are prolific breeders, and release is illegal, why are they simply not bred?

I suspect part of the answer might be that a proportion of the 100,000 birds are kept by unscrupulous folk - but how big a proportion?

Also, is it really A Bad Thing to release Barn Owls? I see from your post, Suricate, that there is the issue/problem of 35 (I presume) non-native sub-species, but I personally have my opinions about the "sanctity" of subspecieas, and I would be interested to know how mush variation there could possibly be between each of the 35 sub-species?
 
steviewol said:
Hi Dave
Unfortunately old churches are either being knocked down or modernised into houses.
Click to expand...

Define old? I doubt that this is happening with genuinely old churches, in the bad old days before the founding of the Churches Conservation Trust this did happen, the CCT has over 300 "redundant" churches in its care. Where redevelopment does take place it tends to be Victorian chapels and even this doesn't happen as often.
 
birdman said:
I hope this is not a completely stupid question, but if there are 100,000 captive Barn Owls, and they are prolific breeders, and release is illegal, why are they simply not bred?

I suspect part of the answer might be that a proportion of the 100,000 birds are kept by unscrupulous folk - but how big a proportion?

Also, is it really A Bad Thing to release Barn Owls? I see from your post, Suricate, that there is the issue/problem of 35 (I presume) non-native sub-species, but I personally have my opinions about the "sanctity" of subspecieas, and I would be interested to know how mush variation there could possibly be between each of the 35 sub-species?
Click to expand...
Hi, Birdman,
There are a proportion of barn owls kept by unscrupulous people and perhaps a lot higher than i dare to think. Some form of legislation needs implementing. These so called Owl keepers just let them their birds breed and some are sold with ring and Article 10`s but a great many are sold to the innocent.
Another factor to these high numbers is ignorance, simply because it is so easy ( too easy ) to get a pair of Barn Owls, free in many cases that people take them on without any real knowledge. they have an aviary put up a box and think thats it. OOPs they start breeding.
Most people now do not put boxes in, (although Barn Owls will nest on the floor in captivity) and if eggs are layed they are either taken out or pricked, so the bird will sit full term +.
The problem with hybryds is mainly down to American and Tyto Tyto alba.
There are many people keeping both species and my concern is that the larger hybryds if released or escaped could affect our own birds. This is possibly over reaction on my part but in many cases non indigenous species have adversely affected our own.
Suricate
 
Does anybody know how this total release ban can be changed whether in part or full. Is there a time span before it is again considered?

Reading recent articles it seems the owls are slowly changing their breeding habitat which I hope will help the long term survival of this magical bird.

A little of topic here I know but sadly the Barn owl which was featured on the royal mail stamp has died at the age of 13 I think.

Is there a figure as to the age of wild barn owl life span?
 
Sleeper said:
Does anybody know how this total release ban can be changed whether in part or full. Is there a time span before it is again considered?

Reading recent articles it seems the owls are slowly changing their breeding habitat which I hope will help the long term survival of this magical bird.

A little of topic here I know but sadly the Barn owl which was featured on the royal mail stamp has died at the age of 13 I think.

Is there a figure as to the age of wild barn owl life span?
Click to expand...
Hi Sleeper,
the consultation was put out by DEFRA
[email protected]. Sarah Jones is the Species Conservation Policy Officer and I and others have contacted her in regard to rethinking the policy of a complete ban, to stop it completely must surely be wrong ?.
I even took this to the MEP and he visited a wrote on my behalf to sarah Jones. Her reply was that they fely that the right decision had been made. Who am I to argue !. I would think it would take quite a lot of lobbying to create re-interest from DEFRA. Im` still trying.
Does anyone consider that the numbers are at the right level considering all that is set against them ? I dont` know how old wild barns owls reach theres a lot set against them. But apparently the oldest Barn Owl kept in captivity reached the ripe old age of 34.
Suricate
 
Thanks for your reply, Suricate.

Clearly things are very complicated. I have been fortunate enough to catch a really good view of a Barn Owl this evening, and it would be a real tragedy if we messed up the situation and lost them entirely, or hybridised our Owl into "extinction".

As I said before, I have reservations about the sanctity of sub-species, but I am generally opposed to the prospect of losing the local variant due to the careless or malicious introduction of a very foreign ssp. (ie one unlikely to make it here under it's own steam.)
 
Hello,
How many people do you think are still releasing..........?
Also, how many of the 'casual' Barn owl keepers are going to take an ounce of notice of a change of legislation regarding the keeping of captive owls....?


Hi Pete
I'm not particularly bothered how old 'those' buildings were or indeed if they were churches, chapels or even cathederals.
I'm not bothered if they were old places of worship or old chip shops, the point was the majority of old derelict buildings are being lost.

If you want to be pedantic & start splitting my hairs well thats all well & good, but it'll be better for anyone reading this topic if you stop wasting reading time & space and stick to the topic (Barn Owl).

PS. Have a nice Sunday.
Stevie.
 
steviewol said:
Hello,
Hi Pete
I'm not particularly bothered how old 'those' buildings were or indeed if they were churches, chapels or even cathederals.
I'm not bothered if they were old places of worship or old chip shops, the point was the majority of old derelict buildings are being lost.

If you want to be pedantic & start splitting my hairs well thats all well & good, but it'll be better for anyone reading this topic if you stop wasting reading time & space and stick to the topic (Barn Owl).

PS. Have a nice Sunday.
Stevie.
Click to expand...

I'll have a nice Sunday since I'll be out birding. Saturday will be good for the same reason.

What I was pointing out was that your facts were wrong. If they were wrong on this I can presume that most of your other facts are wrong as well can I?

It would be nice if some of the contributors to this thread and the Sparrowhawk thread could maintain some level of respect for fellow forum members.
 
birdman said:
Thanks for your reply, Suricate.

Clearly things are very complicated. I have been fortunate enough to catch a really good view of a Barn Owl this evening, and it would be a real tragedy if we messed up the situation and lost them entirely, or hybridised our Owl into "extinction".

As I said before, I have reservations about the sanctity of sub-species, but I am generally opposed to the prospect of losing the local variant due to the careless or malicious introduction of a very foreign ssp. (ie one unlikely to make it here under it's own steam.)
Click to expand...
Hi, Birdman,
Yesterday I was called out to another Barn Owl ( road kill ) in this part of the country there are major development plans 162,000 houses and major road works, so the Barn Owls here are begining to suffer. In the past few years we have seen many bypasses being built and the construction of the A14.
Northamptonshire does have 300+ Stewardship schemes under way but with the road problems the outlook is bleak.
We have widened flood areas and the replanting of hedges will in time benefit but will it come quickly enough. It seems that the Railways are removing many bushes and trees from the trackside and as one contributor earlier said it could be a further problem for Barn Owls.
I think possibly the biggest threat to hybridisation in wild birds would come from the American Barn Owl as there are many in captivity and they do breed with tyto tyto alba. A larger owl would drive established pairs away ( Poss scenario )
In other areas our tyto`s seem to be holding their own, could this be due to limited development or better farming practices ? A 15 year project has put new roads high on the list of main contributors to the decline in Barn Owls.
Suricate
 
Beauty on Hushed Wings.

Hi
We were fortunate this afternoon to watch a wild Barn Owl sat at its roost site, preening & stretching its wings & legs.
The bird then treat us to a flying display & allowed us to view it perched on fence posts too.
Whilst hunting we noticed a minor interaction with one of its neighbours, a Little Owl.
(We were also fortunate in seeing 2 other Owl species this same afternoon, with a Leo a few metres away, but we didnt have the time to see Short eared at a nearby regular site, else it would have been all 5.)

The owl location is situated between the main A1M & the Main East Coast Rail-line. Both of these linear transport routes are within amile of the location.

I think all this 'doom & gloom' about Owl & wild bird populations is a good Ten Years out of date.

Regards StevieE.
 
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steviewol said:
SNIP
I think all this 'doom & gloom' about Owl & wild bird populations is a good Ten Years out of date.
Click to expand...

We've had some four relatively mild winters in a row, during each of which I have seen more Barn Owls than I had in all of the previous six. It may just be that the survival rate has been (temporarily) higher in the last four winters. Only time will tell.

Andy.
 
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Is the fact that we are seeing so many barn owl deaths on the roads is due to this fast becoming thier only food source in many areas?

Surely, with the barn owl's proven fecundity, we should be doing all we can to swell vole populations rather than concentrating on the owls themselves?

I am by no means against captive bird release, if done properly into suitable habitat, with suitable nest sites - as I am in no doubt is the case here - and agree that the proliferation of barn owls available privately for as little as £15 a chick goes against everything logical or decent.
 
The Futures BRiGHT !!

Hi Andy et al
You may well be right about the survival rate, but what have 'all' these owls been doing in your 4 mild years.........breeding perhaps..?

Co.Durham at one time had the highest recorded annual snowfall in the UK, some 6 feet (not drifts). Now its rare to get snow that lasts more than a few days, except on the Pennines.
The last prolonged spell (2 weeks) of bad snow & ice cover up here was in 1992 !
Barn Owls have begun to increase their range in our county as a consequence of several factors, probably the most important being climate change.

Other factors are :-

Large acreages of set-a-side (which benefit all 5 species here)

Reclaimation of large acreages of pit heaps, with there planting schemes & unmown grassland.

The planting of the Great North Forest & its colonisation of voles etc (temp. habitat)

The restoration of substancial acreages of land sympathetically returned to nature on open-cast coal sites.

Organised Nesting Box schemes, erected in suitable locations.

Farm stewardship schemes with their fantastic field margins (headlands) etc.

Etc
Etc
Etc

RangerJames, Around here Barn Owls routinely hunt through suburban housing estates. (former mining town).

Hope you can look forward, and Remember all Bird Surveys & indeed Records are merely History by the following day. This is the Year 2004 & our world changes very rapidly....

Regards StevieE. ;)
 
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