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Ringing, Banding What's The Point!!! (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Steve
- Start date
IanF said:
Lighten up, it was a light-hearted comment .....note the 'smilie'
Andy
P
peter hayes
Guest
El Annie said:
That answer, if you don't mind me saying so, is elitist. The purpose of this thread is to enlighten BF members. To unravel the mysteries of ringing. To educate. To inform. If you think this work is so valuable, then why not argue your case.
To simply direct people to the BTO web site smacks of complacency. Why not let us hear you loud and proud, making the case for ringing?
Peter
LMG
Well-known member
I agree with everything El Annie and IanF have said so far. I have been ringing since last October and find the work so interesting and rewarding. Birds of the same species all look the same, so how can you tell where they go? Someone mentioned the BTO's Migration Atlas, it's brilliant. It gives loads of information, mainly in the form of maps, about most birds and shows how far they travel. We always find it exciting to know that one of 'our' birds has travelled to say, Yorkshire or Africa.
We also monitor weight, size, age, diseases etc, which is all useful information for explaining population trends. University students often use the data for carrying out surveys and projects. The more we know about birds the better, as we can help them. Why the decline in house sparrows for example?
Ringers are closely monitored and are very professional in the work they do. It takes several years to qualify, as there is so much to learn about each species, it's not just a matter of putting a ring on a bird - that's the easy bit!
We also monitor weight, size, age, diseases etc, which is all useful information for explaining population trends. University students often use the data for carrying out surveys and projects. The more we know about birds the better, as we can help them. Why the decline in house sparrows for example?
Ringers are closely monitored and are very professional in the work they do. It takes several years to qualify, as there is so much to learn about each species, it's not just a matter of putting a ring on a bird - that's the easy bit!
Reader
Well-known member
Well said Annie. I fully endorse all of your comments, and possibly more. I used to belong to a group that once a year used to ring Storm Petrels on an island north of the North Scottish coast. They funded the whole exercise themselves, i.e purchasing their own rings etc. Not only did we ring Stormie's but also Fulmars, Kittiwakes, Bonxies plus many other birds that were on the island. It was extremely hard work, as we had to ring through the dark hours (Stormie's don't come onto land in daylight) and then to carry on ringing through the day.
The info from all of this is fed into the BTO data base, if my memory serves me right, and gives a clear picture of life span plus the health of the birds (by weights and condition). If the birds had been previously ringed, where they have been before (and some Stormie's are long distanced and long lived birds).
We need these ringing groups to carry on as the data is very useful for all sorts of reasons.
Are birds decreasing in an area (ringing continually in the same area each year will throw any anomalies up)
Migration routes these birds take. Bird movement, does the Blackbird stay in one area or does it travel long distances (you might be suprised by the results).
All manner of information can be gleaned from ringers and, in my opinion, is a real benefit in gathering vital information about the birds that we love to watch.
The info from all of this is fed into the BTO data base, if my memory serves me right, and gives a clear picture of life span plus the health of the birds (by weights and condition). If the birds had been previously ringed, where they have been before (and some Stormie's are long distanced and long lived birds).
We need these ringing groups to carry on as the data is very useful for all sorts of reasons.
Are birds decreasing in an area (ringing continually in the same area each year will throw any anomalies up)
Migration routes these birds take. Bird movement, does the Blackbird stay in one area or does it travel long distances (you might be suprised by the results).
All manner of information can be gleaned from ringers and, in my opinion, is a real benefit in gathering vital information about the birds that we love to watch.
El Annie
Phew..............
There are a total of 23 different rings used made of various types of metal, below is a sample of a few:
AA ring - used on the smallest of birds, eg Goldcrest 0.04gms
(Goldcrest weighs about 5.0gms)
A ring - Blue Tit, Robin, Chaffinch etc 0.05 gms
B ring - Greenfinch, House Sparrow etc 0.07 gms
CC ring - Song Thrush, Redwing etc 0.09 gms
C ring - Blackbird, Fieldfare etc 0.14
D ring - Cuckoo, Green Woodpecker etc 0.30 gms
and so on up to the heaviest ring which is an Eagle sp and weighs 9.9 gms.
Hope this is helpful Alan
AA ring - used on the smallest of birds, eg Goldcrest 0.04gms
(Goldcrest weighs about 5.0gms)
A ring - Blue Tit, Robin, Chaffinch etc 0.05 gms
B ring - Greenfinch, House Sparrow etc 0.07 gms
CC ring - Song Thrush, Redwing etc 0.09 gms
C ring - Blackbird, Fieldfare etc 0.14
D ring - Cuckoo, Green Woodpecker etc 0.30 gms
and so on up to the heaviest ring which is an Eagle sp and weighs 9.9 gms.
Hope this is helpful Alan
Thank-you Annie, I might have known you would come up with the answer.
It seems that the ring put on a bird could be somewhere in the range 0.5 percent to 1.0 percent of the bird's bodyweight. I weigh 80 kg so that could mean a ring on my leg of 0.8 Kg. How would that affect me if I had to carry that for the rest of my life?
I'm not necessarily after sympathy for individual birds here, but more asking the question as to how it might affect bird migration. We know that long migration journeys are highly arduous and demanding and that, for example, the crossing of the Sahara is touch and go for many - are their survival chances affected by carrying a ring?
I did also think of the Ospreys that were fitted with radio transmitters that packed up when they got to Africa (the Gambia). So the birds were then lumbered with fairly heavy pieces of duff equipment.
Am I off my trolley? However I do think Steve has a very sound point on the necessity of widespread ringing.
Alan Hill
It seems that the ring put on a bird could be somewhere in the range 0.5 percent to 1.0 percent of the bird's bodyweight. I weigh 80 kg so that could mean a ring on my leg of 0.8 Kg. How would that affect me if I had to carry that for the rest of my life?
I'm not necessarily after sympathy for individual birds here, but more asking the question as to how it might affect bird migration. We know that long migration journeys are highly arduous and demanding and that, for example, the crossing of the Sahara is touch and go for many - are their survival chances affected by carrying a ring?
I did also think of the Ospreys that were fitted with radio transmitters that packed up when they got to Africa (the Gambia). So the birds were then lumbered with fairly heavy pieces of duff equipment.
Am I off my trolley? However I do think Steve has a very sound point on the necessity of widespread ringing.
Alan Hill
El Annie
Phew..............
Alan, did you follow the tracking of the Honey Buzzards? They were fitted with the satellite transmitters, I think you might find it very interesting....................
http://www.roydennis.org/Honey Buzzard Migration Map.htm
Annie
http://www.roydennis.org/Honey Buzzard Migration Map.htm
Annie
On the subject of moralty ringing, why is it OK to trap a migrating bird, have it struggle in a mist net, be terrified by somebody handling it (imagine being picked by a creature about a 1000 times bigger than you - terrified would be a gross understatement), clap it in irons before eventually letting it go. but it's not OK for those evil twitchers to come along and flush a bird so they can see it??? If I was a bird (which I'm not) I think I know which would cause the least distress.
As an aside I've only been a member 24 hours and already posted on my 2 pet hates - cats and ringing!!
As an aside I've only been a member 24 hours and already posted on my 2 pet hates - cats and ringing!!
MikeMules
Well-known member
Ringing and banding, if for valid scientific research (be it conservation, systematics, population ecology, behavioural research, migration studies etc...) is acceptable, provided it is performed in a professional and ethical manner, and under the auspices of the country's relevant authorities. Much valuable information about many species has been gathered as a result of banding.
A recent example comes from the latest issue of Emu, the journal of the RAOU (Royal Australian Ornithologist's Union) where a ringing project of brown falcons (F. berigora) has, over the course of several years, worked out that previously described colour morphs and subspecies are in fact plumages that indicate age and gender of individual falcons. Other recent Australian banding projects have helped map the migration pathways and wintering grounds of several migratory waders, and satellite tracking has been used to map out the fishing grounds of albatross spp. with implications for their protection from long-line fishing.
Nick-on's comparison of netting and ringing of migratory waders suffers from comparing an activity designed to further the understanding and conservation of birds with the gratification of birders to further their own lists. Also, the size comparison between a 20cm bird and a 200cm human is a size difference of 10 times, not two orders of magnitude larger.
On the other hand, without having read your post on cats, I reckon I probably agree with you on them. I've seen too many cats with parrots, wrens, thrushes etc... in their mouth to feel the slightest compassion for them.
A recent example comes from the latest issue of Emu, the journal of the RAOU (Royal Australian Ornithologist's Union) where a ringing project of brown falcons (F. berigora) has, over the course of several years, worked out that previously described colour morphs and subspecies are in fact plumages that indicate age and gender of individual falcons. Other recent Australian banding projects have helped map the migration pathways and wintering grounds of several migratory waders, and satellite tracking has been used to map out the fishing grounds of albatross spp. with implications for their protection from long-line fishing.
Nick-on's comparison of netting and ringing of migratory waders suffers from comparing an activity designed to further the understanding and conservation of birds with the gratification of birders to further their own lists. Also, the size comparison between a 20cm bird and a 200cm human is a size difference of 10 times, not two orders of magnitude larger.
On the other hand, without having read your post on cats, I reckon I probably agree with you on them. I've seen too many cats with parrots, wrens, thrushes etc... in their mouth to feel the slightest compassion for them.
El Annie
Phew..............
Spar, so far as I am concerned you are to be commended for everything that you do in your efforts to protect and conserve our birds. You are absolutely right (drunk or not!), we MUST make the effort and do what we can. If not then we might find one of these day's that there may be not be quite so many 'birds forever for everyone'!!!
Annie, I've only just seen your post re the Honey Buzzards. Funnily enough I had made a post on the same subject yesterday under the thread started by Jeff Taylor (I think).
Yes it is very interesting, but forgive me if I slightly bang on at the point I made earlier in this thread about the weight of anything that's put on a bird. In the Honey Buzzard case the radio transmitter weighs 20 grams and the weight of the bird is 785 grams (their data) - so the radio weighs 2.5% of the bird's bodyweight. For me (80 Kg) that would mean carrying an attachment of 2.5 Kg. Now if I had to fly over the Sahara, the Med, Europe, and England, to get to Scotland I might be cursing that weight a bit. Seriously though, how do we know that the bird can comfortably cope with the additional burden? Or doesn't that matter "in the cause of science"?
Alan HIll
Yes it is very interesting, but forgive me if I slightly bang on at the point I made earlier in this thread about the weight of anything that's put on a bird. In the Honey Buzzard case the radio transmitter weighs 20 grams and the weight of the bird is 785 grams (their data) - so the radio weighs 2.5% of the bird's bodyweight. For me (80 Kg) that would mean carrying an attachment of 2.5 Kg. Now if I had to fly over the Sahara, the Med, Europe, and England, to get to Scotland I might be cursing that weight a bit. Seriously though, how do we know that the bird can comfortably cope with the additional burden? Or doesn't that matter "in the cause of science"?
Alan HIll
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