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Small bird Poland (1 Viewer)

AGDK

Well-known member
Hello

I found some older picture from first of June from my garden with this small bird.. Can anyone help me with an ID?

Sorry for the bad quality, but it's the only one I have got..
 

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It’s kind of has the jizz of a Red-breasted Flycatcher with wings drooped down and tail cocked so maybe the white ‘patches’ are fluffed up breast feathers and white underfeathers showing due to moulting coverts? Not a brilliant suggestion but a rather unclear image as you say.
 
That was also my first guess, even it doesn't really fit for me.. The head looks mostly like a spotted Flycatcher, the front as a Red Breasted, but the white wing patch looks more like the Pied Flycatcher.. So I'm pretty confused about it..
 
I have attached a less cropped picture, maybe it can help a bit with the jizz, since it's less pixeled?
 

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Just to mention, then we have both Pied, Spotted and Red-Breasted in the area, but have never seen any of them in my garden..
 
... The head looks mostly like a spotted Flycatcher, the front as a Red Breasted, but the white wing patch looks more like the Pied Flycatcher.. So I'm pretty confused about it..

I also went through exactly the same thought process :-O

I don’t think the ground colour of head and mantle really works for Pied though. Which would leave Spotted or RB with ‘dislodged’, and/or moulting feathers. The posture is very typical for RB not so much for Spotted.

...or it could be something completely different o:D
 
My first reaction to the image was also Red-breasted Flycatcher, despite the apparent white wing patch.
 
Why is this not a juvenile stonechat?

Wouldn’t a juvenile Stonechat at the height of the breeding season, (1st June) be a little out of place in a garden with dense mature (shrubs)? (It would also still be in juvenile plumage rather than 1st w so would be much darker and more heavily streaked than the image shows).

Further, the pot-bellied, low-slung rotund shape, along with drooped wings, comparatively long necked/small headed appearance don’t immediately say ‘Stonechat’ to me. Shape-wise, it looks better for a flycatcher imo. When ever I see Stonechats I always think they tend to look slightly barrel chested and more narrow hipped cf to the op image with a slightly erect stance but ‘squat’ necked appearance (although posture and weather influences shape impression)

Stonechat - juvenile 5th June
http://www.netfugl.dk/pictures.php?id=showpicture&picture_id=68395
- July

http://www.netfugl.dk/pictures.php?id=showpicture&picture_id=28695

Adult 16 June
http://www.netfugl.dk/pictures.php?id=showpicture&picture_id=49222

A ‘round’ individual but taken in winter when presumably the temperature would be lower

http://www.netfugl.dk/pictures.php?id=showpicture&picture_id=24448


I’m not saying it’s not a Stonechat but there’s a lot that would stop me reaching that conclusion just on this one image!
 
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It is in front of a Hydrangea or Viburnum shrub - I don't see any mention of mature trees?

my bad ;)

Still it would be interesting to know from the OP if he has breeding Stonechats in the vicinity given their preference for scrub and open country.

The voting has started I see so perhaps I will remain alone on the fence in having my doubts this is a juvenile Stonechat. I’m glad I don’t have this trouble separating Stonechats or Flycatchers in the field :-O
 
Oh I just read Stonechat. I agree it can't be a juvenile but should be female.

Can you give your reasonings please and also if you can show me a link with a female with clean cream belly and flanks with a clean cut off of the pale orange upper breast - also an image where a Stonechat is perched with its wings drooped down and tail cocked as I honestly don’t recall ever seeing this posture on a Stonechat like this.
 
Juv Stonechat was also my first thought. But helas, I don't think it's one.

First of June is an excelent date for juvenile flycatchers to fledge, and I tend to agree with Deb that this is one of the flycatchers, but a juvenile (I'm not sure this is what you had in mind when suggesting it).
The juvenile plumage of flycatchers is usually not shown in fieldguides: what is shown is the plumage that follows the post-juvenile moult: 1st winters. The juvenile plumage is retained for a minimum period and moulted before migration. Juveniles are spotted, much in a juv. Stonechat fashion. I was looking for reference photos to compare and to show you, and I found 1st winters being called juveniles even on ID plates (look here for example: https://identify.whatbird.com/obj/964/_/Red-breasted_Flycatcher.aspx)
I think this may be a juvenile Pied (eventually Collared: do you get them around?), possibly already moulting out of this plumage (but the photo detail does not allow to speculate much about this; the white patch should not be coincidental.
Here's a photo of a juv. Collared (Pied are similar): https://www.flickr.com/photos/andreas_gruber/29829329501 (pay attention to the head pattern, the area behind the eye, and how this is actually a bit reminescent of Stonechat)
and a juv Red-breasted (spotting much more extensive, no white on wing, etc): http://www.rusnature.info/nature/us/pages/03007509A.htm
 
Thanks for all your suggestions.. Now I see why I had some troubles finding the right ID for it.. :)

We have some Stonechats in the area, but I have never seen them in my garden either.. But they are breading regularly like 500-700 meters away.. The closet anyone ever have registered a Red Breasted from my house is around 5 km.. Collared Flycatcher has never been seen in my region.. 300-400 km more east they are common..

Me and my neighbours gardens is just typical gardens, with some tall trees of different types and the usual shrubs.. Mainly surrounded by pine forest, but to the south is a great open area with wetland/rivers with just small trees.. So it's a good habitat for many different type of birds..

It might just be something with the light/camera as suggested, since the camera I had at hand is a pretty old one.. Just a shame I just took that one shot..

Once again, thanks for all your inputs.. Appreciated!
 
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OK let's face it, there is a lot of interpretation about a - no offence - poor photo going on here. Is the white wing patch genuine or just an artefact, are the wings drooped and the tail cocked at all? To me it rather looks like the lower back and rump feathers are fluffed thus leading to this strange jizz. I can't see the tail and the wings seem to be at the right place for a Stonechat. Still, having looked at it again now the head and eyes proportionally seem to be too small for Stonechat. I agree with some here it looks more like a flycatcher which also would fit the habitat better.

As for the suggestion of juvenile flycatchers on 1st June: Pied would be rather early and Red-breasted almost impossible as the bulk arrive not before Beginning/Mid May in Central Europe.

In the end, I think we probably will not know for sure what it was...
 
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