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Favoured types of birding trips (1 Viewer)

Am I a bit weird? :smoke:

Sure, but without that you wouldn't be on birdforum ;)

I totally agree. I also find most exitment in discovering places for which not much information is available. I do most of my foreign birding attached to my work trips, which often helps ending up in underbirded locations like Moldova or Tajikistan, and it's real fun to figure out places and the birds there.
 
It is possible to do proper research and go on your own to a destination and see "lots" of species, but usually those "lots" will be half of the species that you would see with a local guide, especially in forest environments. You need to know the birds songs, microhabitats and behaviour at that exact time. There is no internet research that can compite with a local guide knowledge. Besides, a local guide will also know about local culture, food, hotels, roads, etc. etc. etc. If you really want to maximize your birdwatching experience, just save a little more money and hire a local guide. I agree with the Birding Lodge or Ecolodge options, they might be a little more expensive (not always) but they usually have bird feeders, trails, and even birding guides.
 
I would also add to my earlier post that I try to do a bit of birding on a trip before the days I have guides. That way you can reduce the (expensive) time spent with the guide wasted on species you could have seen without them and spend more of the stuff that needs expertise.
 
If you really want to maximize your birdwatching experience, just save a little more money and hire a local guide.

This I think is where people's ideas might differ, because it depends what you mean by 'maximise your birdwatching experience'.

For me, the older I get the less easy I find it to get really excited while birding. When I've birded with a guide, I do enjoy it, and have seen birds I would otherwise have missed, but I get almost no actual thrill when the mega rare wotsitsname inevitably appears, even if it happens to be me that spots it first (after the guide has taken me to exactly where he/she knows it will be). After I move to another site without a guide I get much more excited crawling around trying to find things myself, and the buzz I get if I find something 'good' is what I would call "maximising the birdwatching experience". Over the years, looking back on birding's special moments, they're all when it's just been me and "my" bird. With a guide it's more like watching the telly.

I am in no way suggesting that birding with guides isn't a great thing to do, but people do get different things from this crazy hobby :t:
 
....sorry it's me again ;). Compare and contrast these two birding experiences:-

1. You're on a trail in the forest...
You: "Did you hear that?"
Guide: "It is me playing a recording"
You: "Ah, what is it?"
Guide: "Look, there, here it comes....... Dullish-everythinged Antgleaner."
You: "Wow, nice one. Thanks. Wasn't sure you'd manage to find that one for me. Cool."

2. Your heart's beating fast because you've scrambled uncomfortably far off the trail, into an unfamiliar forest, in the direction of a call that somehow really reminds you of Commonish Antgleaner, which you last heard five years ago.
You: (quietly) I wonder.....could it be??... SH*T....come back you!....AHHH! Show us your head you little B.........oh hang on maybe it's just a...NO WOW!!!!! NO ********WAY! YES! YEEEEEEEES! At last! DULLISH-EVERYTHINGED ANTGLEANER!.....You little BEAUTY. Thank you little bird!"

Which of these is maximising your birding experience?
 
As someone who has a non-birding partner, our solo (well, duo) trip planning is something like a Cold War Summit meeting: "OK, we'll climb Mt X on Thursday, but there's a nice marsh just along the coast, how about we go there on Friday?" Etc, etc.

We also choose non-birding guided tours, but to places with a lot of birds and other wildlife (and often with some really good wildlife guides). OK, I miss out on a lot of birds, but have some pretty fine holidays and a lasting relationship! ;)
 
....sorry it's me again ;). Compare and contrast these two birding experiences:-

1. You're on a trail in the forest...
You: "Did you hear that?"
Guide: "It is me playing a recording"
You: "Ah, what is it?"
Guide: "Look, there, here it comes....... Dullish-everythinged Antgleaner."
You: "Wow, nice one. Thanks. Wasn't sure you'd manage to find that one for me. Cool."

2. Your heart's beating fast because you've scrambled uncomfortably far off the trail, into an unfamiliar forest, in the direction of a call that somehow really reminds you of Commonish Antgleaner, which you last heard five years ago.
You: (quietly) I wonder.....could it be??... SH*T....come back you!....AHHH! Show us your head you little B.........oh hang on maybe it's just a...NO WOW!!!!! NO ********WAY! YES! YEEEEEEEES! At last! DULLISH-EVERYTHINGED ANTGLEANER!.....You little BEAUTY. Thank you little bird!"

Which of these is maximising your birding experience?

I'm with Larry. Numbers mean nothing to me. I'd much rather have half the birds species and have located them myself. I will hire local guides, if there is something I desperately want to see but don't feel I have a realistic chance on my own. But I have done it a handful of times in the 35 years I've been travelling abroad. I will do it again, e.g for snow leopard, but for me it really is not the same. I'm sure when I do see snow leopard that way I will enjoy it but if I found my own I'd be on a high for several years.
 
I have hired many local guides in various countries from Guatemala to New Zealand. Never have I had to pay in advance and never have I had a language problem. Most guides speak at least basic English. If you are coming from France or Germany or some other non-English country this might be a problem if you don't speak English or the local language. Also, there is the advantage of not needing a guide for every day of your trip. You could go, for example, on a two-week trip and hire a guide for only two days of it. This method does require a lot more planning and self-reliance.

We usually do a few days alone at a sit then take a guide which then allows a much more targeted approach. Why pay someone to show you stuff you would find on your own.

We decided to do this for Herero Chat in Namibia, you could wander around there all day and not find one and its bloody hot!
 
We decided to do this for Herero Chat in Namibia, you could wander around there all day and not find one and its bloody hot!

For me Hrero Chat is a classic example of not needing a guide, but spending your money in staying longer for cheaper, and bimbling about on your own. We didn't see it at any "sites" but just bumped them a couple of times by the side of the road, with time to stop and check them out.
 
....sorry it's me again ;). Compare and contrast these two birding experiences:-

1. You're on a trail in the forest...
You: "Did you hear that?"
Guide: "It is me playing a recording"
You: "Ah, what is it?"
Guide: "Look, there, here it comes....... Dullish-everythinged Antgleaner."
You: "Wow, nice one. Thanks. Wasn't sure you'd manage to find that one for me. Cool."

2. Your heart's beating fast because you've scrambled uncomfortably far off the trail, into an unfamiliar forest, in the direction of a call that somehow really reminds you of Commonish Antgleaner, which you last heard five years ago.
You: (quietly) I wonder.....could it be??... SH*T....come back you!....AHHH! Show us your head you little B.........oh hang on maybe it's just a...NO WOW!!!!! NO ********WAY! YES! YEEEEEEEES! At last! DULLISH-EVERYTHINGED ANTGLEANER!.....You little BEAUTY. Thank you little bird!"

Which of these is maximising your birding experience?

I don't twitter and all those hearts and likes at the bottom of messages make me shake my head, but I'm going to give you a heart and a like for this and other posts on this thread, Larry you weird whatsitsname! I like the cut of your jib. ;) :t:
 
For me Hrero Chat is a classic example of not needing a guide, but spending your money in staying longer for cheaper, and bimbling about on your own. We didn't see it at any "sites" but just bumped them a couple of times by the side of the road, with time to stop and check them out.

We were coming to the end of a six week trip aND just didn't have the time to spare.
 
I guess everyone has different expectations and ways of enjoying birdwatching. I have travelled to many places and at some point , wish to have a local expert with me, giving me some juicy tips about rare birds and unknown locations, or even about the common ones. I enjoy watching and identifying the "little brown jobs" that look similar, sometimes do not sing and are really hard to identify without the expert eye. I have even done a "private wildlife safari" in Kenya and decided that next time I won´t loose time and I will just hire a local birdwatching guide. Birding guides will usually know about animals in general, local culture, vagrants presence, nests!!!! etc etc. Besides, you can have both experince in the same trip, as many others said, you can go on your own one day and then hire a local guide. On the other hand, in certain areas like the Iguazú National Park, birding guides are the only people allowed to enter the park before is open for regular tourism, and in many other areas you are supposed to hire a guide (like Massai Mara). If I really think through, I think that my best birding moments were all shared with someone else besides me, enjoying that magic moment with inmediate feed back, and having a great subject of conversation for the beer moment at the end of the day!
 
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I haven't done much birding abroad but I'd much prefer going and doing my own thing, learning sites myself and finding species at random. However if there was something specific I was targetting that I knew would be difficult on my own then I may consider a guide.

NIge
 
I guess everyone has different expectations and ways of enjoying birdwatching. I have travelled to many places and at some point , wish to have a local expert with me, giving me some juicy tips about rare birds and unknown locations, or even about the common ones. I enjoy watching and identifying the "little brown jobs" that look similar, sometimes do not sing and are really hard to identify without the expert eye. I have even done a "private wildlife safari" in Kenya and decided that next time I won´t loose time and I will just hire a local birdwatching guide. Birding guides will usually know about animals in general, local culture, vagrants presence, nests!!!! etc etc. Besides, you can have both experince in the same trip, as many others said, you can go on your own one day and then hire a local guide. On the other hand, in certain areas like the Iguazú National Park, birding guides are the only people allowed to enter the park before is open for regular tourism, and in many other areas you are supposed to hire a guide (like Massai Mara). If I really think through, I think that my best birding moments were all shared with someone else besides me, enjoying that magic moment with inmediate feed back, and having a great subject of conversation for the beer moment at the end of the day!

I haven't done much birding abroad but I'd much prefer going and doing my own thing, learning sites myself and finding species at random. However if there was something specific I was targetting that I knew would be difficult on my own then I may consider a guide.

NIge

Two contrasting views here which I think are equally valid, depending on circumstances.
I've only been on a couple of holidays where birding was the main or significant activity (Japan and Colombia), but they illustrated widely contrasting situations regarding the necessity for some local knowledge.
In Hokkaido, almost all the specific targets (Japanese crane, Steller's sea-eagle, Blakiston's fish-owl) are more or less guaranteed if you turn up at the right place - you don't need a guide, but you'll be sharing the experience with a lot of other birders and even more bird photographers. You are also in the Palaearctic region, so lots of the species are familiar to a European birder, albeit with different subspecies in most cases. When you are on your own (as I was on Izu islands), there are only a few additional species to learn (e.g. brown-eared bulbul) before you can home in on the unfamiliar targets (i.e. Izu thrush, Owston's tit), but there isn't really any need for guiding.
In Colombia, I added 17 new families to my life list, not counting hummingbirds, icterids and Parulid warblers where I'd only seen a couple of species before. Here local guides made for a much richer birding experience, including on the cultural / companionship side which karadya alludes to. I also enjoyed birding on my own, but quite a lot of the time I at least initially had no idea what I was looking at, and it was a case of 'shoot first, ask questions later'. I know I missed out on species which a guide would've got, particularly those of the 'Dullish-everythinged Antgleaner' ilk, and the satisfaction of self-finding and identifying your own birds has to be weighed against this.

What is interesting about this thread is how few people have supported the all-in 'package tour' approach with a European or American leader - the debate seems to have coalesced around local guides vs. self-finding.
 
I am firmly in the DIY camp. I actually enjoy the planning, researching the area, looking for likely accommodation (usually go self catering for the flexibility) working out routes and itineraries, putting a "hit list" of places and targets etc. OK so maybe I might miss a few things that a guided tour might pick up, but then it is amazing what you can find simply by talking to the locals and picking up information from reserve visitors centres, local tourist information etc. With the amount of information now available a mouse click away it should not be that hard to plan a decent trip yourself.

Personally I just like to have the freedom to pick and choose when and where I go rather than having a fixed schedule. If I want to stay out late, or start early then I am not reliant on others, or need to get back for mealtimes etc. I can simply up and go. If the weather changes I can alter my plans accordingly, similarly if I get a hot tip from other birders then I can change plans at any time.

That is not to say that using a local guide cannot also be valuable in tracking down elusive targets but again I would do this independently rather than through an organized package.

No disrespect to those that do take the package route but it all seems a bit plastic to me and a bit of a procession. I would rather just get myself out to the right habitat, known hotspots etc and seek out my own targets.
 
I would say habitat is also a factor, because honestly some habitats are just way more birding-hostile than others.

If I'm going somewhere with nice mudflats on the edge of an estuary for instance, I wouldn't generally bother getting a guide unless it was part of a broader trip; water based habitats are generally the easiest to bird because the birds will be literally sitting on an open surface half the time.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, birding in forest or grassland without specialist knowledge could very easily be very frustrating. Forest you frequently may be surrounded by birds, be able to hear them or catch glimpses but you lack the expertise to actually know what you've seen or to be able to know how to get the best views. The kind of birds of you might hire a guide to see in grassland on the other hand (bustard species for a personal example) could be anywhere and especially if their location is protected it's just looking for a needle in a literal haystack.

Besides, the "guide plays a call on a phone, they appear, you tick it off" isn't necessarily indicative of all guides. I don't think any guides I've hired have used playback, and honestly, there is a buzz being guided by an expert and being able to pick out some stuff before they see it. Picking out my first ever Bonelli's eagle at great height in Monfrague while my guide was looking at some other raptors remains one of my favourite birding moments. Doing your own research DOES contribute to the overall success of even a guided trip.
 
Local Guides

1. You're on a trail in the forest...
You: "Did you hear that?"
Guide: "It is me playing a recording"
You: "Ah, what is it?"
Guide: "Look, there, here it comes....... Dullish-everythinged Antgleaner."
You: "Wow, nice one. Thanks. Wasn't sure you'd manage to find that one for me. Cool."

You've been with the wrong guides, Larry, or on the wrong kind of trips for you.

I know you know this but I'm sure there are many guides like me. I don't use tape lures. I believe in field craft. I bird my patch all year round and my routes change depending upon, e.g. bird movements and land use changes by farmers, etc. And I always have a Plan B, C, etc.

There's strategy behind my madness too.

i) Fixed accommodation so we can adjust and adapt chosen daily itineraries based upon weather forecast, targets (if any) acquired, local bird news or even whim

ii) Use of 4x4 vehicle which, although expensive to run, maximises deep country access - with sandgrouse often car-side for example - and increases guide/client contact

iii) I design each tour to cover as wide a range of habitats as possible, repeating them as much as possible, in order to encounter the full range of species available without having to rush around chasing birds

iv) I'm a qualified zoologist so like to chat about each species life history, ecology, adaptations, etc., all of which, I think enriches the experience

There's more but my point is that many of us are professionals that take our job seriously. I know you weren't saying otherwise, Larry, I'm not challenging your experiences. I totally understand those that want to find birds themselves rather than hire a guide.

I love birding my patch throughout the year and get a huge thrill showing clients around Catalonia and Aragon (sometimes other parts of Spain) and my objective is 'always try to make the experience as close to birding with friends as possible'. Selfishly, it's a better experience for me too.


I had a fantastic tour in the Steppes yesterday with a couple and their kid, all of us (including me) absolutely thrilled at an Eagle Owl looking at us down the scope, counting and re-counting Pin-tailed Sandgrouse close to the car but still hard to see until they stand up, head-throwing, farting Little Bustard, marvelled at 200 Griffons circling overhead trying to pick out the Egyptians only to find them on the floor close-by, Great Spotted Cuckoo pursued by Magpies, Golden Eagle helter-skeltering, etc. etc.

They made the comment that, birding on their own, they wouldn't have got 10% of the species we spent time watching and enjoying. We watched and enjoyed birds ALL DAY. No time wasted driving around, trying to find species, may be getting lost, etc.

Depending upon who you are, I suppose there are advantages and disadvantages between self-birding, local guides or big tour companies.

Birding experiences aren't always made by the birds. For some it's the people you share them with too. Others, on the other hand, prefer their own company. It's all cool.

Good luck to us all. We're all after the same thing, just in different ways.
 
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Depending upon who you are, I suppose there are advantages and disadvantages between self-birding, local guides or big tour companies.

I agree with you.

My wife and I only recently started birding, and we are starting to notice the big difference between serious outings with professional guides and "winging it" ourselves. Also the difference between the truly local guide (the one who lives near the observing area and is there often) and other professional guides (from the city) who undoubtedly know a lot (and speak English), but deliver an experience that is just not the same.

I'm a very "DIY" trip planner myself, and birding tours are very expensive (specially when your income is in devalued Colombian currency), so I've been doing research attending to the tours organized by local bird fairs, taking names of local guides and lodges and operators, learning to analyze eBird's hot spots to identify birding locations and looking them up on goggle maps, etc. The information is out there, it just takes some time/research.

I've been thinking about making this information available, as some sort of website where people like me, who prefer to "DIY" organize their own trips can find out where they can go, what they might see, where they can stay/Lodge, who they can call to get a (truly local) guide (or how to get the most out of it if going alone), the costs, permits, capacity limits etc.

If anything, such a thing would help get more Colombians out of the cities and into the countryside, consuming services from rural communities, which might help teach those communities to ascribe value to their nature riches, so they might want to preserve them when the inevitable pressures of oil/mining/development come around.

It would be quite a bit of effort though.
 
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We not yet discussed that some places have very poor infrastructure or actually force "official" visit with a guide. There is no way to see Uganda gorillas or Galapagos or Komodo truly "independently". At the same time, most other islets in Indonesia can be birded independently, although they are at least equally remote.

In my observations, countries and reserves which restrict independent tourism and mandate "official" visits are often very poor, and also stay very poor. Part of the problem that the local "gold mine" of tourists inevitably gets monopolized by a local clique. This monopoly leads to all the poor service, stagnation, poor conservation and divide between haves and have-nots usually associated with monopolies.

I personally would not support conservation projects (including Galapagos) which include restricting independent travellers. Both because of personal egoism as (formerly) an independent traveller, and because of the bad effects it produces in the longer term.
 
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