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ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

New Zeiss Victory SF !!!!!! (1 Viewer)

I wanted to blog about this release, but I am not able to find a proper product image of any of the models. Any idea where to find some good resolution images (min of 800 pixels on the longer side)?
 
I think in this case the "designer" has the glam job and asks for things. The engineers are the poor sots who have to make it work. ;)

Speaking of which, I just got around to calculating the FOV in feet. Did I do this right? 444 feet at a thousand for the 8x?

Indeed, the 8x SF seems to be aimed straight at the SV:

"Wider," by 45', although the SV is 8.5x.

"Faster": faster focus than the SV, but slower then the FL.

"Brighter": remains to be seen if this can be seen (by me anyway).

"Lighter": by 2 ounces. No revolution there I'm afraid. Still, given a choice...

It may be "incremental" but that's life at the cutting edge. Unless, Chosun prevails. :t:

Mak
 
I'm not inclined to give any design credit to the executive who says, "make me a binocular with a wide field that's sharp to the edge". Couldn't we all handle that job? The designer is the one who comes up with the eyepiece that makes it happen.
 
henry link said:
I'm not inclined to give any design credit to the executive who says, "make me a binocular with a wide field that's sharp to the edge". Couldn't we all handle that job? The designer is the one who comes up with the eyepiece that makes it happen.
Click to expand...

Henry:

Your words seem to be ringing true at Zeiss.

Swarovski has been recently by far the largest seller of the high end Alpha optics. The company only sells optics and has its crystal division.

At Carl Zeiss, sports optics is quite a small part of its total sales, as Microscopy, medical, semiconductor, industrial, vision, and camera lenses seem to be a larger part of sales within a large diversified company.

If anyone is interested, the reports of the company are public knowledge
as per their financial reports.

I do like competition, and do appreciate some new efforts from Carl Zeiss.

Mike Jenson, is a former employee of Swarovski, and so he has helped to
get things up to speed.

Jerry
 
Kammerdiner said:
This from the US Zeiss facebook page:

"Carl Zeiss Birding_US SF stands for Smart Focus. The SF was designed by Gerold Dobler who also designed the EL. It is not a copy but an evolution of the design concept, better in every dimension. Wider field (the field of a 7x in an 8x), sharp to the edge without uncomfortable distoritons for a more comfortable view; lighter weight; stronger, more comfortable Triple hinge system; superior balance; and, as you would expect from ZEISS, brighter by a visible margin. In photographs it might look something like an EL (in person it actually has its own unique look), but the view it provides, and the way it feels in your hands, is so noticeably different that no one is going to mistake the SF for an EL, once they get them in front of their eyes. The SF is what the EL wants to be when it grows up. :) It is, very simply, the world's best birding and nature observation binocular. I am Steve Ingraham, and you have my word on that!"

Apparently some Americans are enjoying a "Zeiss Victory SF Experience" in Austria right now, including Ben from Eagle Optics and Debi Love Shearwater (well known pelagic guide). Some people have all the luck!

https://www.facebook.com/zeissbirdingus

Mark
Click to expand...

Mark, interesting find. I've highlighted some bits of the quote you posted, coloured according to the traffic light system of alarm! Maybe the "Trade Practice" Laws are quite lax in Germany? Some of these claims have trumped all previous Zeiss marketing hyperbole' !! |8.|

Orange Lights:
As Jerry and I touched on before - the stuff about wider fields, AND lighter weight AND reasonable ER, would be some engineering feat, since it deals with diametrically opposing variables. They are claiming to have trumped both Swarovski, Nikon (no mugs in the game), and just about any other mainstream bin companies I can think of in this regard (considering the flat field claims). Zeiss has been caught out before with less than accurate specs. I hope that everything that they claim for the SF holds true in measurement. It will be interesting to see internal cutaways of this bin - IF the claims hold true, it must be quite a marvel ....

The claims of edge sharpness without uncomfortable distortions can only ring true for a % of the population, since "globe effect" is concomitantly and inextricably linked, among others (situational, behavioural, etc), to an individuals own optical system distortion characteristics (both physiological, neurally, and for some psychologically! :). As Holger pointed out, the apparent k values will cater to a majority of users - but not everyone will play happy with this bin.... Besides, as also mentioned, we don't know the precise form of the distortion profile yet, so maybe there will be some funky monkeys yet to pop up (Not doubt Brock is feverishly working on coining a new "ring" moniker in just such an event!) :smoke:

Red Lights:
"Brighter by a visible margin" ..... really? than what? accepted wisdom around here is that in the order of 3% difference is needed in light transmission, in order to be visible with the naked eye. Going on published specs, the SF sure as heck ain't got 3% better transmission than the some of the Swaro's! Furthermore, Zeiss typically (FL, HT, T* coated) have a 'gentle hill' type transmission curve, peaking around the daylight values. Swaro (SV's) usually have a 'tabletop' type curve, and some (like the 10x42 see allbino's) have a pronounced 'boost' (less loss *teehee) in the bluish regions - perhaps there will be a visible advantage ..... just not falling the way Zeiss says!
Anyway, all this is speculative at this stage, and the final proof will be in the viewing, and experienced comparitive opinions of BF and other users ..... but it is food for thought ..... :eat:

"The world's best" ..... again, really? Sez who? Has allbino's proclaimed it so already?! Has Dennis !! :-O

The final proof will be in the pudding (and seeing how the ingredients actually measure out), but if the specs and claims ring true, then it certainly looks like a useful incremental improvement on one of the current benchmarks. :cat:

Strategically, it makes sense to go with a two pronged SV /SLC tailored type offering ..... all we need now is an all-in discounting war to achieve market supremacy! far better for consumers than all this marketing guff. ;)


Chosun :gh:
 
With all those extra elements, it will be interesting to see if the SF retains the ''pop'' and transparency of the HT.

At any rate, my days of buying new bins ended with the HT's.....I guess I'm a hunter now.;)
 
Thank you, Kammerdiner, for posting that encomium by Steve Ingraham.

Steve has serious cred, even if he now works for Zeiss.
His 'Better View Desired' blog really pioneered binocular evaluations for birders. It identified the superior quality of the Nikon SE as well as the flaws in the Zeiss Victory. If he's willing to put his name on the line for this glass, it must be pretty special. I very much look forward to getting my hands on one.
 
james holdsworth said:
With all those extra elements, it will be interesting to see if the SF retains the ''pop'' and transparency of the HT.

At any rate, my days of buying new bins ended with the HT's.....I guess I'm a hunter now.;)
Click to expand...

James:

This is very good news, and you should be excited, finally a new binocular
design that some of us fussy types may approve of. ;)

You will be among the first to try one, I hope. I respect your opinion, and
so that will be important.

The HT has been out for over a year and maybe 2, and I have not found
one yet to try in the retail stores I go to several times a year, and that
includes Cabelas and Scheels.

Zeiss has some work to do with their sales force, getting the high end
binoculars into the stores. I only find the Conquest and the Terra. The Leica
slot may have the perger RF and Trinovid, and Nikon only has the Monarch
and lower.

I suppose Zeiss will be enlarging the mfr. of these from the small number
that could only make a few of the Victory HT each day, as we heard about at the start.

This binocular if it is done well, could be a big thing for Zeiss, so I do hope
they are prepared to mfr. it in numbers and sell it with boots on the ground.

Sales of any product take a lot of effort, and I speak from experience.

Jerry
 
Hello Lee.

Sorry, and sorry to all (for not a subject directly related to this awsome post). i am now in Central London visiting my eldest son who is working here. And, of course, I want to go to a good optic store. Yesterday I went to Robert Caplan store at Pall Mall street but was closed (6 PM). I will go today. But want to go to anothers. Thank you for your advice!

PHA
 
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Troubador said:
Hi

My understanding is that Gerold Dobler leads and directs a design team. I wouldn't know how to separate the direction given to achieve certain optical and handling abilities and characteristics from the act of doing the optical calculations and detailed design work itself. It would appear to be two sides of the same coin.

If I am mistaken in this perhaps Mike Jensen or Mark Karn could enlighten us.

BTW I should add that Gerry attends the British Bird Fair from time to time and can be found on the Zeiss stand. He is the most approachable of people and an enthusiastic birder.

Lee[/QUOTE

Gerry has a PHD, but I'm not sure what exact discipline. At Zeiss, he is a senior PM, not an optical designer, not an optical engineer. However, he is one of maybe 2 or 3 people in the world that can lead a team to build a product like the SF. As the brainchild of the EL, he has been developing concepts for years on what the next evolution of a binocular can be. An excellent PM need not do the optical calculations, but they MUST understand what theoretically is possible. If you drive your team to the impossible, you get nothing. Knowing how lenses function within the product, how to move them, how placement affects what optical feature is a fine balance between art and science. His work is amazing, we are proud to have him, and his work isn't done yet.". :).
Click to expand...
 
mjensen6577 said:
Gerry has a PHD, but I'm not sure what exact discipline. At Zeiss, he is a senior PM, not an optical designer, not an optical engineer. However, he is one of maybe 2 or 3 people in the world that can lead a team to build a product like the SF. As the brainchild of the EL, he has been developing concepts for years on what the next evolution of a binocular can be. An excellent PM need not do the optical calculations, but they MUST understand what theoretically is possible. If you drive your team to the impossible, you get nothing. Knowing how lenses function within the product, how to move them, how placement affects what optical feature is a fine balance between art and science. His work is amazing, we are proud to have him, and his work isn't done yet.". :).
Click to expand...

A product manager like Gerry brings his/her vision to the team of all of the performance parameters from FOV to the required point of balance, from the weight and dimensions of the body to the maximum values of the various types of distortion, from a myriad of optical parameters to the overall shape of the instrument and much more. Like a composer writing music on a stave he makes demands on people with other skills that he doesn't possess but which he understands intimately. The symphony that we hear is produced by the instrumentalists who play it, but it owes its existence and form to the vision of the composer and in the case of the SF, the composer is Gerold Dobler.

Lee
 
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Very lyrically waxed there Lee ...... :clap:

But who brings the Carbon Fiber ?! |8.|

(..... perhaps there's just a tad more than 2 or 3 people in the world capable :) ;)

Also, pizza is quite good for fuelling those all-nighter design sessions :eat:



Chosun :gh:
 
Chosun Juan said:
Very lyrically waxed there Lee ...... :clap:
Click to expand...

Yes indeed. But I think I would change the role of the product manager in Lee's analogy from composer to impresario, who may not be able to read, write or play a single note. If he choses a composer (designer) like Mozart we get the binocular equivalent of "Don Giovanni", if he choses Rogers and Hammerstein we get "The Sound of Music". ;)

Henry
 
henry link said:
Yes indeed. But I think I would change the role of the product manager in Lee's analogy from composer to impresario, who may not be able to read, write or play a single note. If he choses a composer (designer) like Mozart we get the binocular equivalent of "Don Giovanni", if he choses Rogers and Hammerstein we get "The Sound of Music". ;)

Henry
Click to expand...

Its a nice picture Henry, especially if instead we choose Sibelius and end up with the bino equivalent of his 5th Symphony or Walton and get his violin concerto.

But, respectfully, I suggest your analogy breaks down as team of designers is being 'orchestrated' not one talented composer. Nevertheless, congratulations on bringing a note of culture to BF :t:

Lee
 
Chosun Juan said:
Very lyrically waxed there Lee ...... :clap:

But who brings the Carbon Fiber ?! |8.|

(..... perhaps there's just a tad more than 2 or 3 people in the world capable :) ;)

Also, pizza is quite good for fuelling those all-nighter design sessions :eat:

Chosun :gh:
Click to expand...

Pizza is also necessary to fuel those bino-obsessive debates.

If you ever come to Sheffield, UK, the second thing you should do after contacting me, is to visit Mama's & Leonies : pork spare ribs to start and pizzia diane to follow and I'll pay the tab :gh:

Lee
 
I was just perusing the Zeiss offerings online at Eagle Optics- SF 8x42 listed for $2599 vs Swarovision 8.5x42 $2529. Obviously they're not in stock yet but a comparable price at this point is not too discouraging.
 
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