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RSPB very rarely check membership cards (1 Viewer)

MJB said:
The trouble is, Ian, that any proposal phrased in an authoritarian way, any demand made in an authoritarian way, and any plea to make things more reasonable phrased in an authoritarian way just make me more determined to make things difficult for the would-be authoritarian.

Of course, my resistance to such would-be authoritarians is non-confrontational, because usually they will otherwise respond passive-aggressively, claiming their view is of course 'reasonable' and mine insignificant. By being non-confrontational, one can expose linear and literal thinking as inadequate, thus frustrating and annoying the would-be authoritarian in ways that remain mysterious to such people.

32 years in the Forces provided me with the perfect training-ground for developing successful non-confrontational strategies to combat would-be authoritarians, and now I've been retired for almost a quarter-century, I am sure that Official Secrets Act no longer applies in this matter and so I've decided to reveal all!;););)
MJB
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And that post is just gobildeegook.
Ian.
 
IAN JAMES THOMPSON said:
It's very simple have volunteers check membership cards in some of the bird hides. And before anyone says it can't be done, well the RSPB used to do this as there was an entrance charge on lots more RSPB reserves during the 1960's and 1970's despite not having as much money back then. And before anyone says it's not very community spirit or not very welcoming, well it's far better than the RSPB loosing money on non-members entrance fees.
Ian.
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But the RSPB doesn't lose money when people don't pay to get in - it doesn't cost the RSPB anything to host these people on their reserves. Surely far better to encourage them to visit and hope that some of they join, rather than demanding money from them which could put them off joining or returning to the reserve.
 
Ian,

If you just want to post an opinion and then only consider and reflect upon the responses that agree with you, then you can only expect (once this has occurred a few times - Druridge mining to name another) a degree of dismissal and derision, I would suggest.
Several responders here have proposed alternative perspectives, and backed them up with their reasoning. If your purpose posting was to solely pour scorn (a la Daily Mail) then I'd suggest you can only expect responses like Jos Stratford. If your intention was to seek understanding as to why an organisation like the RSPB might do something intentionally that you initially find baffling then I'd suggest perhaps you might reflect more on their responses.

I too am a Life member of the RSPB, and occasionally get frustrated an the umpteenth begging letter, but I also hope they never seek to emulate the WWT, with their duck zoos and pinioned waterfowl. I too therefore think their 'payment' strategy makes a lot of long-term sense.

I hope this post makes more sense to you.

Mick
 
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Fat Paul Scholes said:
But the RSPB doesn't lose money when people don't pay to get in - it doesn't cost the RSPB anything to host these people on their reserves. Surely far better to encourage them to visit and hope that some of they join, rather than demanding money from them which could put them off joining or returning to the reserve.
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How do you know the RSPB don't lose money. They can pay for there entrance fee or join the RSPB. Why should non-member get free admission where there's a charge.
Ian.
 
Ian,

As you said at the top you think the RSPB should change their policy and actively and strongly 'police' the payment of admission fees - going as far as having volunteers checking people in hides. Others here (some also RSPB members) have explained why they think this would be a bad, counter-productive point of view and while it might increase gate receipt revenue in the short-term it is likely to have a greater negative long-term outcome.

Given the balance of responses to date, I think you can see why the RSPB do what they do. It is not an omission or error on their behalf, but a positive strategy.
That you don't agree is also clear, but then if you want only to be a member of organisations that do what you want 100% of the time, then I think you'll be saving a lot of subscriptions.

Mick
 
IAN JAMES THOMPSON said:
How do you know the RSPB don't lose money. They can pay for there entrance fee or join the RSPB. Why should non-member get free admission where there's a charge.
Ian.
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Clearly they shouldn't, but having now had about 7 years' experience as a Hides & Trails volunteer at RSPB Pulborough Brooks, my own perception leads me to believe that this is not a significant problem. Besides, one of the good things about Pulborough Brooks is that Members (or cheating non-Members!) can gain access to the reserve at any time throughout the year other than on Christmas Day, which I think presents another reason to support the RSPB's current approach.
 
I would expect that any non-members in an RSPB group would be informed by the leader of the group that they would be expected to pay the entry fee when visiting a reserve and that social pressure would do the rest. If not I would expect a forceful, but polite, reminder by the leader of the group would be forthcoming. Hence demanding to see the membership cards of everyone in an RSPB group party is likely to be counter-productive and a waste of time. More widely, the questions to consider are a) how many regularly 'cheat'? b) how many are encouraged to join by a non-confrontational non-officious approach? c) even if some don't pay, is the deficit thus created outweighed by the educational value (in the broadest sense) provided by the visit. My impression, when working or visiting Dungeness RSPB, was that very few people 'try it on' and even if they did then the benefits of the more relaxed and friendly a welcome, which this policy fosters, outweighed any losses. I also feel that regular staff, volunteer or paid, were actually pretty good at spotting non-members and able to address the issue in a non-officious friendly way. The RSPB is very good at analysing such matters and I suspect have a very shrewd idea of the balance sheet in this regard. The downsides to being officious and demanding to see cards are not hard to fathom, the most obvious one being that you can put off staunch supporters. I'm old enough to remember when the RSPB was very officious with visits needing to be booked in advance and you were regularly pounced upon on entry. I have no doubt that part of the reason for the society's growth to become one of the largest organisations of its sort is because of the more liberal and welcoming policy currently in force. To deviate from it would be a huge mistake.
 
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Many reserves have public rights of way which cannot be restricted( the rules for dogs usually indicate where they are). Much of Scotland has public Right to Roam as do parts of England and Wales. Both these make enforcing entry charges tricky .

Jim48
 
At the last four RSPB reserves I visited (Burton Mere Wetlands, Conwy, Minsmere and Titchwell) membership cards were rigorously checked.
 
Mike C said:
.... Titchwell .. membership cards were rigorously checked.
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Really? Isn't the path to the beach along Titchwell's west edge (and past all the hides) a public right of way? I've never been asked for membership there.

Edit: yep, checked on map, it's a public right of way, they can't stop you walking along it. All they'd be able to do is have a staff member (or vol.) in each hide to check cards, and I've not known that happen.

Minsmere I can understand, it's a 'closed' site so they can keep tabs on who goes in our out. Not been to Burton Mere Wetlands or Conwy so no idea.
 
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Last time I went to Titchwell membership cards were left on windscreens in the car park to avoid having to Pay & Display
 
Dungeness is another place where a public footpath runs through the centre of the reserve rendering rigid checking of membership cards on entry pointless. With regard to Titchwell, I've never been asked to show my membership card which is scarcely surprising given that, as Phil points out, you're asked to leave it in the windscreen (as I recall non-members are expected to pay a parking fee but I don't know how far this is enforced).
 
Apologies all, bit of a brain fart as said membership cards on dashboard at Titchwell.
BMW and Conwy are closed sites
 
Nutcracker said:
Really? Isn't the path to the beach along Titchwell's west edge (and past all the hides) a public right of way? I've never been asked for membership there.

Edit: yep, checked on map, it's a public right of way, they can't stop you walking along it. All they'd be able to do is have a staff member (or vol.) in each hide to check cards, and I've not known that happen.

Minsmere I can understand, it's a 'closed' site so they can keep tabs on who goes in our out. Not been to Burton Mere Wetlands or Conwy so no idea.
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Minsmere is not a closed site you can enter from the beach and from near the island mere hide
 
The other difficulty of course is that most RSPB sites are dawn to dusk , with entry through side gates when staff not present, any policy that meant all cards have to be check would either mean increased costs to staff at this time or more likely reserves closed when staff not present which would annoy this RSPB member a lot!!!!
I also feel that the original posts implies that most people are dishonest or trying to get away with something and I don't think that is true for the majority of people, especially I like to think people who go birding!!
 
Congratulations to Ian James Thompson, winner of this month's Bird Forum award for the Biggest Storm in a Teacup Thread.

I mean, seriously, given the work of the RSPB and the issues it faces, is there really any point in this discussion?

Malcolm
 
MalR said:
Congratulations to Ian James Thompson, winner of this month's Bird Forum award for the Biggest Storm in a Teacup Thread.

I mean, seriously, given the work of the RSPB and the issues it faces, is there really any point in this discussion?

Malcolm
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Just sarcasm from you. Not very constructive.
Ian.
 
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