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Canon 7D MkIII .... (1 Viewer)

Temmie, I am not sure I buy everything you write about cost and weight of mirrorless. I am using Panasonic: g85 and PL 100-400. This is a good enough setup that I get some keepers, even when doing purple martin in flight. So I tried to compare size/cost for a setup to give a similar reach using the nikon PF series as you mentioned. However, to get close I had to go for the PF500 and I chose a not top of the line body, the d7500 (similarly, my camera is not top of the pana line, that would be G9, and I included that camera body as well for the hell of it). So the comparison is (all numbers from DPReview except cost which was Amazon.com):
Weight incl lens Nikon 2180, g85 1490, G9 1643
Reach Nikon 750, g85 800, G9 800
Cost Nikon 4392, g85 2190, G9 2792 (in US$)

I like to have a zoom, and possibly should have hunted for a zoom setup for Nikon but that would certainly be heavier (Tamron 150-600 would have added about 550 grams to the nikon setup but would have brought the cost down to about the same as my g85 setup)

Anyway, this is a bit of a tangent to the original content of this thread

Niels
Niels, that's quite alright - I think most of us here constantly balance those parameters (weight, performance, cost) to provide the best solution for our needs. There's probably a fair amount of interest in new products and development direction purely from being gearheads too and looking for that next improvement in our equations. Did I mention weight ?! lol.

The Panny's certainly offer some high spec featured bodies (given the physical limitations of the sensor size) - I think even the Nikki D500 has some improvements to make.

The Nikki PF lens range likewise is a bit of a standout performer (wallet stretching cost notwithstanding). About the only thing to say is that f5.6 makes a handy improvement on f6.3/7, especially at the larger sensor format size offering even better subject isolation. It is worthwhile noting that the Nikons also have a 1.3x in-camera crop factor too which brings the PF 500 to 1000mm @f5.6 which is pretty sweet.

It would be interesting to see what Canon users think is a comparable kit to the ones you list and see what the numbers turn out to be in comparison ....... :cat:




Chosun :gh:
 
To me the not releasing or making a 7d III is a big "drop dead" to their loyal customers. I was planning on getting a new one this year, but all the market shifting and new models with yet another mount have put me off. Instead I finally got a decent telescope.
If the 7d III really is dead I may opt out of canon altogether and see if something else is cheaper and better out there.
 
To me the not releasing or making a 7d III is a big "drop dead" to their loyal customers. I was planning on getting a new one this year, but all the market shifting and new models with yet another mount have put me off. Instead I finally got a decent telescope.
If the 7d III really is dead I may opt out of canon altogether and see if something else is cheaper and better out there.

So how do you know that something cheaper and better isn't the 90D?
 
That last rumored specs I saw for the 90d were 10 fps at 32 MP with weather sealing and dual card slots and dual processors. Sounds pretty good.

I assume from calling it a 90d, it will have the ergonomics like the 80d which are close to the 5d layout, but with the flippy rotating screen you lose the left side buttons. I guess would be the big compromise, unless they cheap out on the shutter (the 7dii was 200k rated, I think) or some other features.

Marc
 
@MJN Until the 90D is released you don't.

My biggest problem is the lack of clear communication from Canon.
As what you can see from leaked info / rumors the 90D will be a hybrid of the 80D and the 7dmkII. It will depend a lot on the built and the ergonomics and most important how it will handle in field instead of numbers on paper.

Like I said, Canon missed out on my money this year since it went to a scope and they also have lost my customer loyalty since I'll now be focusing as well on other brands. I'm not heavily invested in Canon lenses, but nevertheless it seems they're split on where to go and how to handle it. I despise not knowing on what to expect and what the cost will be.

Having EF EF-S and now the new mounting systems doesn't make it clear and straightforward to make a selection. The 7d and 7d2 used to be the go-to cameras for sporting and wildlife situations, but they no longer are even considered among the best. This -could- be remedied by a new model, but latest rumors have written off the 7d series. I have time now so let the market settle, but their policy comes at a price.
 
Have Canon ever told you 12 months in advance what the next iteration of a camera will be? Or the cost of it. Forgive me if I'm wrong but I don't recall it.
If they take a 7D2 and replace the sensor with a class leading unit along with improved af it will be an excellent camera regardless of whether it's called 90D or 7D.
 
I also have been looking at other brands. In particular the Olympus OM series 4/3 w/300 mm lens. Been using canon for over 30 yrs but like others I have been pairing down lens to just 100-400ii and 7D2. So will see if Canon does 7d3 or not. As far as video could care less, just give me a good camera body In no rush but would like to upgrade at some point
 
90D to be announced 28th August

In about 3 weeks we will find out what all the 90D fuss is about.
https://www.canonrumors.com/canon-eos-90d-specification-list-cr1/

For the next year? (and possibly forever?) this is as close as we can get to an upgraded 7D II, although it will be a different non-Pro animal. Dual Digics and ~32MP at 10fps sounds nice :t: It remains to be seen whether the tracking and AF are up to 7D II levels, let alone beyond that to Nikon D500 levels.

I give the remote possibility of a 7D III one more year though not with any degree of confidence. Canon financials have taken another beating recently. It seems they are quite happy to not have a competitive product to challenge the Nikon D500 which has been running away with the title for over 3 years now - hardly a plan for prosperity !

If the new DSLR Flagship IDX III (hopefully with the oil spray issues fixed) doesn't spawn a 'little brother' 7D III next year, then I think we can safely say the gig is up .......

Even if the long awaited 7D III does finally make a Lazarus like appearance, the market is going to be so much more crowded with competitors that will have moved the game on again - the Sony a7rIV and it's by then likely 'twin' the Nikon Z8, the Sony a9II, the rumoured APS-C 'baby a9', and perhaps even a Nikon D7600 and /or D500S. All would hard for a 7D III to catch.

This is the trap that Canon has fallen into - the longer the wait (6 years+ c'mon !?!) the greater the expectations around vastly improved performance will be.


Chosun :gh:
 
If Canon decide to go down the mirrorless route with the 7D3, that's a straight 2 fingers up to me as a 7Dc and 500/4 user. Who's going to buy a new body with a new 500/4 mount at the same time. I've been waiting on the 7D3 so if it doesn't show then maybe sell my 10 year old 500/4 and get a Sony 200-600 and I'd have choice of great bodies.
I currently have the
7Dc
500/4
100-400 mk1
70-200 F2.8 mk2
16-35/4
plus flashes, cords, batteries etc.
A lot of money for an amateur to invest in a company which seems to do all it can to annoy it's customers. I also shoot Fuji as my carry everywhere bodies, they provide a route map so buyers can plan long term, it hasn't done their sales any harm.
 
Canon 90D promotional video 'leaked'

A promo video for the 90D details quite a few features and specs.
32.5MP sensor, only 1 Digic 8, only 4K30p, AF limitations and plenty of fine print caveats tell me this is no 7D II successor. It seems pegged as a Nikon D7500 competitor, albeit a high resolution one which is nice?.
https://www.canonrumors.com/canon-eos-90d-promotional-video-appears-to-have-leaked/

So where does this leave the 7D III ???

Perhaps it is a remote possibility in ~12 months time following on with the DNA of the looming flagship 1DX III ...... ?

Otherwise it could be an even longer wait for an APS-C R mount version.

While XXD users might be happy and upgrade, I can't imagine 7D II users are very happy at all .....



Chosun :gh:
 
I just checked now, May 2010 I purchased my 7D. I've probably been waiting for an upgrade for at least 5 years easily. Since my son was born 4 years ago i stopped carrying my Canon stuff everywhere and bought into Fuji as it was so small and light ( essential when you have to carry all the baby essentials and I have 3 now aged 2, 4 and 6 ). I have spent probably about £3K on Fuji gear because Canon had no real answer to their APS-C range.
Recently, and I mean within the last 6 months, I almost sold all my Canon gear to go full Fuji, their XT-3 is outstanding, and a 14mm, 23mm, 56mm is a super lightweight bag which rivals Canon FF quality. Whilst their 100-400 is very very good, it isn't a 500/4 beater. I have a XT-1 which, whilst being quite old Fuji tech now, handles noise so much better than my 7D, I never felt the 7D2 was enough of an upgrade for me to want to swap ( not slating the 7D2, just as an amateur shooting for fun you have to draw the line somewhere on your investment )
So now at present I'm at a crossroads, the lack of a 7D3 could see me not bothering with Canon any more, other manufacturers have really stepped up
to the plate since 2010. Sigma lenses are now top notch, both Sony and Fuji bodies are outstanding ( Fuji medium format for £5K ), Nikon AF and IQ with the D500 showing the way, where does that leave me, I almost bought a 1D4 recently as an upgrade, a body released in 2009 ????? What are my options ?????:storm::storm:
 
I just checked now, May 2010 I purchased my 7D. I've probably been waiting for an upgrade for at least 5 years easily ...... So now at present I'm at a crossroads, the lack of a 7D3 could see me not bothering with Canon any more, other manufacturers have really stepped up to the plate since 2010...

I feel your pain !!

I came across this on another forum :-O

"The 5 stages of a Canon customer:

1) anticipation and hope
2) confusion and disbelief
3) denial and bargaining
4) anger and frustration
5)acceptance and depression"





Chosun :gh:
 
..... What are my options ?????:storm::storm:
That's the big question !
Complicated a bit because you have a fair bit of high end FF Canon glass, and £3K into a pretty good Fujifilm Mirrorless system.

Canon has indeed blown a huge raspberry to their loyal fans (particularly the 7D series owners ! :eek!:) .... I mean what on earth are they thinking ?!? The 7D II is nearly 5 years old, has been getting whoop*ss*d by the Nikon D500 for over 3 of that, and apart from this 90D (which looks to be more XXD than XD) there is nary a whisper of a 7D III - in fact the mail seems to be that as a DSLR it is likely dead ..... :gn:

We shouldn't prejudge the 90D (it will be interesting to see what those 32.5MP can actually do) , but we don't know how deep the RAW buffer is, nor how well the AF system will work (and at what speed) - it only has 1 Digic processor, and has less focus points than the 5 year old 7D II. Heck ! It's got less focus points than my Nikon D7200 ! (51pts) - a camera that when shot side by side against the 7D II almost causes those Canon owners to want to throw their 7D II's in the bin !! :eek!:

Depending on how this 90D is received I suppose, Canon may decide next year to trot out a DSLR 7D III based on the gestating flagship 1DX III - though that has to be a very remote possibility doesn't it ..... ? (Canon will have been on the canvas for over 4 years then ..... )

The mail is that the 7D III may incarnate as a Mirrorless 'R' mount, though given the amount of Eye-AF etc that they have to make up that would have to be at least a year or more away wouldn't it ???

Probably the best go to birding rig that currently exists for non-oligarchs ! would be the Nikon D500 and PF 500mm f5.6 lens.

There's stuff on the way from Sony (crop a7000? and FF a9II). They warrant serious consideration, and then there's the Nikon Z8 61MP FF next early yearish, what might be up to an 83MP Canon R8, and some serious Pro telephoto glass for Olympus. There is also a rumored Nikon PF 600mm f5.6 lens on the way ......... :cat:
Lots of different combinations and permutations there. :brains:




Chosun :gh:
 
I used to get pretty fired up about all this but I've kind of given up. Honestly for my main desire for a DSLR, which is seabirds from a boat, a 7DII is pretty good still. I'm not about to buy a way more expensive body and might or might not be tempted to buy a 7DIII - it would depend wholly on autofocus performance.

To me, the far greater disappointment is the lack of a meaningful new lens that isn't a heavy, large, expensive offering in the 300-500mm range in the last 20 years. There are three lenses that can realistically take pictures of birds and can be carried over a mortal's shoulder for a full day: the 400/5.6, the 300/4 IS, and the 100-400 (mark I and II). The 100-400 mark II is the best of the lot, perhaps, but is still heavy and bulky. If I could get 7DII AF performance in a lighter weight body, and a new 300 or 400 prime that was significantly lighter weight, that would finally be an advance. But I'm not holding my breath :)

At some point mirrorless AF will get there, it's still not even close. In the meanwhile I'll keep what I've got and wait until the clear answer comes along, perhaps it'll be another 5 years or so but I can't see a good motivation to upgrade any DSLR gear any more, honestly.
 
At some point mirrorless AF will get there, it's still not even close. In the meanwhile I'll keep what I've got and wait until the clear answer comes along, perhaps it'll be another 5 years or so but I can't see a good motivation to upgrade any DSLR gear any more, honestly.

I think you are talking Canon mirrorless AF here?

Niels
 
I think you are talking Canon mirrorless AF here?

Niels

Sorry for not being more specific - I was actually talking about any mirrorless. Tracking small erratically moving birds with an EVF is worlds harder than with a DSLR's optical view finder. What I've seen of mirrorless autofocus still leaves a lot to be desired compared to better DSLR bodies, again at least for birds in erratic motion or against complex/moving backgrounds (ie a choppy ocean). Perhaps it will get there but from what I've seen, my Sony RX10IV and a few pretty godo M4/3 setups fail miserably compared to a 7DII as it stands. Again speaking strictly about seabirds, though something like a swift is also much harder with an EVF than with optical.
 
The only thing I know is DSLR still has an edge on mirrorless for long-lens wildlife photography, unless you spend more for your mirrorless set-up than an equal (sensor size / lens millimeters / F-number) DSLR setup.

Yes, you have a weight decrease with mirrorless, but if you e.g. compare to the PF Nikon lenses (that 300F is really small and light), the difference is negligible.
Olympus has a better (superior) sensor stabilizer in its OMD range bodies but if you combine it with its (excellent) 300mm lens, it's at least 50% more expensive than a similar Canon or Nikon setup.

There is quite some improvement to make (especially on stabilizer and sensor) for Canon, but at the moment, I am shooting very sharp pictures (from time to time!) and I am thus not desperately waiting (or going with the herd, making the leap to mirrorless) for a new camera. So I don't understand the canon bashing in this topic, at all.

To illustrate this, most of the shots below are cropped, some early morning thus poor light, all are size-reduced without sharpening afterwards, and with a 5-year old Canon 300mmF4 IS (first generation) + 1.4 converter II (a good but less than ideal lens combo, with 2 stops optical stabilizer), and the (now very famous because from this topic it seems a very bad camera) Canon 7D mark II, that is happily used by thousands if not millions.

Judge for yourself and tell me why I should be nervously looking at other systems.

https://observation.org/waarneming/view/171660595?_popup=1
https://observation.org/waarneming/view/171660388?_popup=1
https://observation.org/waarneming/view/171660306?_popup=1
https://observation.org/waarneming/view/171660241?_popup=1
https://observation.org/waarneming/view/172293308?_popup=1
https://observation.org/waarneming/view/171660171?_popup=1
https://observation.org/waarneming/view/171660104?_popup=1
https://observation.org/waarneming/view/166269774?_popup=1
https://observation.org/waarneming/view/166269764?_popup=1
https://observation.org/waarneming/view/166269728?_popup=1
https://observation.org/waarneming/view/166270774?_popup=1
https://observation.org/waarneming/view/166269678?_popup=1
https://observation.org/waarneming/view/166269636?_popup=1
https://observation.org/waarneming/view/161961664?_popup=1

I agree with what you are saying and you have no need whatsoever to change your gear.
I see the same as you......many people buy gear because they think it will improve their photos if they have the latest camera......there are many gear freeks out there......some even buy the latest gear (not just photography equipment) just so they can say they have it.....it can be a vanity thing.
There are people who buy stuff for genuine reasons but a lot of purchases are made because people are taken in by the marketing men who convince them that they have to have their latest innovations to do any good.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with the canon 7d mk2......it takes great photos, performs well in all departments and is far more capable than most of the photographers,including myself,on these forums.
 
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