Climate Change per se is long term and the huge picture that we scarcely know how to get our arms around. But with rising sea levels, esp. if really large glaciers break off from Greenland or Antarctica, we can visualize a huge emergency of sudden migration of a hundred million people, or perhaps double or triple that. Think about the friction that would cause.
-
Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.
Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
AGW and rising sea levels (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter fugl
- Start date
Not all that “long term”, unfortunately—decades not centuries—and all the more reason to “get our arms around” those parts of the phenomenon we can do something about, carbon emissions for example. What other available course is there, after all, beyond claiming it’s all too much for us and doing nothing?
If you check my post, it doesn't suggest hopelessness about curbing emissions, nor abandoning the oceans to plastics, nor abandoning the remaining rainforests etc. etc.
What it does suggest is the likelihood of sudden swarms of migrants, perhaps in the hundreds of millions, overrunning towns and villages all over the globe, which can produce a wave of bloodshed like the world has never seen.
That's the difference between a cancer and a heart attack.
And if you check my post you'll find that I didn't accuse you personally of anything.That said, there are certainly many who profess hopelessness in the face of AGW--or simply deny it, I don't know which is worse--and that I find very depressing.
Indeed, the worldwide submergence of seacoasts with their huge cities and billions of inhabitants would have immense consequences, including in all probability social/political/economic breakdown and violence on a staggering scale. I have no argument with you there either.
So, onward & upward. . .. Paper straws, windmills and carbon taxes, anyone?
There's no need for paranoia here. I merely reemphasized what you were glossing over, namely that sudden and bloody invasions of millions of migrants are a threat of societal collapse worldwide.
Try for example to find any internet discussions of global warming and seas rising that emphasize the great danger of a hundred million or more people suddenly invading populated areas inland.
Not me. You used the word accuse, which I certainly didn't do. I'll reiterate my point for the record: Of all the mentions I see in media about global warming, never (or almost never) do they mention or emphasize the most extreme danger of immediate mass global migration.
I try to avoid agendas and political sides, but I do have a passion for this issue and how none of our governments seem to be addressing this danger in any visible way.
Most large governments, and certainly the U.S., seem to be run by large corporations and their powerful lobbies these days, and I suspect that most of those are OK with articles and discussions on global warming, because they've made some preparation to sell us solutions of some sort when the time comes that they're desperately needed. But even then, if there are no big profits to be made in addressing mass emergency migration, then it makes sense that they wouldn't be interested in public service campaigns to raise awareness of that issue.
It does not take AGW to spur mass migration, desperation because of poverty and violence is quite sufficient. I would think that Britain would understand that pretty well, given the highly publicized migration through the Chunnel.
What is interesting is that no demonstrated solution has been found by any of the Western countries, not even by Australia, which has draconian policies and which is isolated by oceans on all sides.
Indeed, but unchecked AGW is in line to make matters worse, much much worse.
Last edited:
AGW, the news gets worse and worse—
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/08/opinion/sunday/science-climate-change.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/08/opinion/sunday/science-climate-change.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share
Chosun Juan
Given to Fly
There is enough solar influx here to not only power the average household, but also the average transport (consumed by a battery powered car) just with Solar PV on the average rooftop.
The missing piece of the jigsaw puzzle (apart from Solar PV panels actually on every rooftop instead of on 'farms' displacing arable land) is the transmission network. It's just not designed for omnidirectional networked electricity flow - it needs a major redo.
Under the cover of global warming alarmism, the publicly owned network was 'gold plated' (in terms of redundancies to reduce maintenance of the traditional network). Then, again, under a further round of global warming alarmism, this public asset was sold off for a song to an oligopoly of private companies supposedly to reduce the electricity price paid by consumers. However it is the same old story of corporate mafioso - again under the guise of global warming alarmism, the retail price was jacked up manyfold and has increased on that trajectory ever since. Virtually none of those profits stolen from the public have been invested in making Solar PV viable. The 'robber barons' are alive, ridiculously fat and happy !
Ding effin' Ding !!! :storm:
Chosun :gh:
Chosun Juan
Given to Fly
https://theconversation.com/500-yea...Bs79NaWoSOoAjq-x7m0PdgijuU9pA-pV_LPfAZ7Z1L-Mo
Interesting rainfall reconstructions.
3 of the worst 5 single droughts were in the 1700's - must have been drier than a dead dingo's d*nger ! :eek!:
Also later that century - decades long flooding ! :eek!:
Also, yet another "index" created to try and explain weather cycles. Looks like an El Nino-like weighted summer again for us judging by the absence of rainfall to see out the year - the bushfire induced orange skies and smoke filled oxygen short air should be great training for budding Mars astronauts ! :cat:
Chosun :gh:
Interesting rainfall reconstructions.
3 of the worst 5 single droughts were in the 1700's - must have been drier than a dead dingo's d*nger ! :eek!:
Also later that century - decades long flooding ! :eek!:
Also, yet another "index" created to try and explain weather cycles. Looks like an El Nino-like weighted summer again for us judging by the absence of rainfall to see out the year - the bushfire induced orange skies and smoke filled oxygen short air should be great training for budding Mars astronauts ! :cat:
Chosun :gh:
litebeam
Well-known member
Couldn't help but chuckle this week...schadenfreude watching the 'woke' Socialist Labour party get completely embarrassed.
All the best to Boris (and Brexit.)
The resident elitist hypocrites here are, no doubt, still in a state of shock.
Not only will our Earth survive; Britain will prosper.
Cheers Britain!
All the best to Boris (and Brexit.)
The resident elitist hypocrites here are, no doubt, still in a state of shock.
Not only will our Earth survive; Britain will prosper.
Cheers Britain!
Chosun Juan
Given to Fly
Nah, Britain's run out of Sovereign Nations to 'Colonize' and plunder
Scotland wants off the sinking ship and who only knows what Ireland will do ? :brains:
Boris will have to set the circus to one side now and actually get back to 'governing' - that will be interesting .......
Meanwhile it's hotter than a slow cooked chook here - mostly due to drying the country out and firebugs/government bodies setting it alight ......
Chosun :gh:
“A burning nation led by cowards. . .”.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/03/...es-climate-change.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/03/...es-climate-change.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share
Chosun Juan
Given to Fly
This bloke - PM Scott Morrison, or 'ScoMo' as he likes to be known, or "ScuMo" as he is becoming increasingly known - is an absolute d*ckh**d.
He is an exceptionally poor leader.
He is a dead man walking.
After stupidly going on holidays to Hawaii in the midst of a crisis which is seeing an area the size of Ireland burnt to the ground, he is now cynically touring fire grounds for pathetic photo ops (known locally as 'going the crawl' which is low even for a politician) as volunteers toil away month after month. I was heartily reassured to see the grizzled old RFS volunteer refuse to shake his hand.
https://themindunleashed.com/2020/0...WJIB9VP-wyksf4YAeA3I0srkG81d6EipNPtxwua9mMhlA
Chosun :gh:
P.S. This has nuffink at all to do with climate change but I'll learn yas all on that later ...... :cat:
Au contraire, drought and record high temperatures have everything to do with AGW and little (if anything) to do with land mis-management. And carbon emissions —the root cause—are unlikely to be brought under control soon enough to avert near-term disaster. Australia’s comparatively empty but much of the rest of the world is teeming with an ever-growing human population which cannot be adequately fed by the kind of boutique agriculture you’ve been advocating.
These inconvenient facts have been repeatedly pointed out to you by me and others but to absolutely no avail; you simply ignore them and blithely sail on. I can’t imagine it will be any different this time. . ..
Last edited:
Chosun Juan
Given to Fly
That NYT article was rather emotional and 'incendary' going for it's usual grab bag of disparate symptoms to try and prove CC. It doesn't.
Great Barrier Reef dying? - mostly agricultural chemicals in the run off.
Imagine if you will France and Germany (and probably a few other countries too!) concreted over and placed in the middle of Australia in 100°F temperatures - what do you think will happen to the temps once that air gets to Eastern Australia ?
https://www.sbs.com.au/news/sydney-...UDbMGC9VnFmNiXSmT9AS_f9ozlX7orb-N-i0FzmLeIPvM
This pic for context - for even though it's a concrete jungle now - this is where it is sited - a river valley ...... the hottest place on earth ! ding ding !!
What if I told you the current conflagrations were due to repressed Aboriginal Sovereignty? or the feral Red Fox? or the proliferation of concrete guttering? all of which correlates nicely. Would that door to an open mind crack open just a tiny little bit?
First it may require even the remotest consideration that Western Science, Academic Rigor, The Scientific Method, etc, are just but the tiniest subset of all knowledge - wisdom so advanced that you would probably have to consider it magic ...... :cat:
When that swiss cheese block of assumptions and error multiplied navel gazing modelling evolves to a point where it's open to far bigger boundaries I will revisit. In the interim all I can do is present the knowledge - whether it's given to me by 8ft tall ancient warriors that stroll through doorways into this world (from realms where waiving your Doctorate around is seen as no more impressive than a two year old banging building blocks together), trees that shimmy and shake and telepathically talk to me, or eagles whispering to me on the wind, or emergent 'science' ..... it's up to everyone else to open their eyes instead of blithely sailing on .... coz the current course heads rapidly towards a giant plug hole. :cat:
Btw - I've never advocated "boutique agriculture" - only sustainable kinds. This would involve surrendering 1/3 of that land to nature. Productivity of the remainder would increase by 50%, double, more - who knows. The important point is that the asset base of soil would improve and increase - instead of being 'mined' and eroded, as now, and the hydrological cycle would be reinstated. Global Heat problems solved. You could even have a portion of intensive animal rearing - in fully sustainable built facilities - renewable powered, methane, compost, and water harvesting, trigeneration, located appropriately ..... simple really.
All of this does require forsaking worshipping the almighty $ though. Why worship a ponzi scheme when you could worship the soil that supports you, the air you breathe and the water you drink instead? Oh, look at that - CO2
Chosun :gh:
That NYT article was rather emotional and 'incendary' going for it's usual grab bag of disparate symptoms to try and prove CC. It doesn't.
Great Barrier Reef dying? - mostly agricultural chemicals in the run off.
Imagine if you will France and Germany (and probably a few other countries too!) concreted over and placed in the middle of Australia in 100°F temperatures - what do you think will happen to the temps once that air gets to Eastern Australia ?
https://www.sbs.com.au/news/sydney-...UDbMGC9VnFmNiXSmT9AS_f9ozlX7orb-N-i0FzmLeIPvM
View attachment 714168
This pic for context - for even though it's a concrete jungle now - this is where it is sited - a river valley ...... the hottest place on earth ! ding ding !!
What if I told you the current conflagrations were due to repressed Aboriginal Sovereignty? or the feral Red Fox? or the proliferation of concrete guttering? all of which correlates nicely. Would that door to an open mind crack open just a tiny little bit?
First it may require even the remotest consideration that Western Science, Academic Rigor, The Scientific Method, etc, are just but the tiniest subset of all knowledge - wisdom so advanced that you would probably have to consider it magic ...... :cat:
When that swiss cheese block of assumptions and error multiplied navel gazing modelling evolves to a point where it's open to far bigger boundaries I will revisit. In the interim all I can do is present the knowledge - whether it's given to me by 8ft tall ancient warriors that stroll through doorways into this world (from realms where waiving your Doctorate around is seen as no more impressive than a two year old banging building blocks together), trees that shimmy and shake and telepathically talk to me, or eagles whispering to me on the wind, or emergent 'science' ..... it's up to everyone else to open their eyes instead of blithely sailing on .... coz the current course heads rapidly towards a giant plug hole. :cat:
Btw - I've never advocated "boutique agriculture" - only sustainable kinds. This would involve surrendering 1/3 of that land to nature. Productivity of the remainder would increase by 50%, double, more - who knows. The important point is that the asset base of soil would improve and increase - instead of being 'mined' and eroded, as now, and the hydrological cycle would be reinstated. Global Heat problems solved. You could even have a portion of intensive animal rearing - in fully sustainable built facilities - renewable powered, methane, compost, and water harvesting, trigeneration, located appropriately ..... simple really.
All of this does require forsaking worshipping the almighty $ though. Why worship a ponzi scheme when you could worship the soil that supports you, the air you breathe and the water you drink instead? Oh, look at that - CO2
Wow, 8 ft-tall warriors, sorry I asked. . ..
“Boutique” in the sense that implementation of the agricultural methods you espouse is only practical in technologically advanced nations with stable or declining populations. And you’re wrong about “western science” which, when it comes to effecting real-world change in agriculture and other practical pursuits, is the only game in town. C’mon now, you know this. . ..
CalvinFold
Well-known member
So, we're down to "magic" now? So you're the anti-Purple Heron?
Chosun, I have found your posts very fascinating, and even enjoy the pseudo-religious leanings (as I lean that way myself), but this really changes the conversation to a degree that the conversation itself can't be had.
Science has it's issues, and good science freely admits it doesn't know everything, but without the science, such as it is, we couldn't even all have a common ground to speak from; each being entrenched in our own psyche.
As for the comment about "boutique agriculture," it really is. I agree "doing it in a way that is less harmful to the Earth" is a good thing, it has been pretty well proven it would take alot more land-per-human to do it correctly; heck even intuitively that's easy to see.
An example, watched an interesting video that walked through whether "organic" vs. "non-organic" farming methods were better than the other. Came out a tiny, tiny net in favor of organic, but overall is a net draw. The organic farming is better for the planet in theory, but production of it to meet demand has meant companies are producing it in ways that cause just as much harm in other ways. Was very sobering.
(And also takes me back to "we just need less people"...an always uncomfortable discussion. One also could argue science got us into this environmental mess via technology...)
If you're gonna ditch the science altogether, then that doesn't leave room for discussion, only proselytizing. I gave up that game a long time ago; that brick wall hurts.
Similar threads
