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What if...... (1 Viewer)

Canip said:
I trust you are basing this judgment on some sound personal experience, not hearsay?
;)

[[[Here my very personal 2 ct on „average-performing“ based on my individual interaction with the Retrovid 7x35:
this is currently the best 7x35 on the market, and there currently are very few 7x40 / 7x42 binos that are as good or better than it.
And I like the 8x40 even better ... ]]]
Click to expand...

No Canip I haven't had a look through them yet, so my assessment is based on specification and price. The 7x35 looks gorgeous and the fov of 140m is attractive too but the close focus (while probably perfectly adequate for most birders) is depressingly long at 4m for a nature observer and the 16mm of ER looks marginal, although to be sure, this can be deceptive.

Nevertheless I accept your slap on my wrist and admit I may have been hasty and have only the provocative tone of Post 335 to offer as an excuse and I certainly wish you many years of enjoyable viewing with them.

Lee
 
Troubador said:
No Canip I haven't had a look through them yet, so my assessment is based on specification and price. The 7x35 looks gorgeous and the fov of 140m is attractive too but the close focus (while probably perfectly adequate for most birders) is depressingly long at 4m for a nature observer and the 16mm of ER looks marginal, although to be sure, this can be deceptive.



Nevertheless I accept your slap on my wrist and admit I may have been hasty and have only the provocative tone of Post 335 to offer as an excuse and I certainly wish you many years of enjoyable viewing with them.



Lee
Click to expand...
Not sure what was provocative about my post
 
Thomas_M said:
Would collectors miss the yellow cast of the old Trinovids, or prefer the clean, conrasty of the new ones?
Click to expand...

This is a ridiculous assertion, and you know it.

An "old" Trinovid with modern coatings, dieeletric coatings on the prisms and especially phase coatings would *not* have a yellow cast. And it would be contrasty.

Hermann
 
Hermann said:
This is a ridiculous assertion, and you know it.

An "old" Trinovid with modern coatings, dieeletric coatings on the prisms and especially phase coatings would *not* have a yellow cast. And it would be contrasty.

Hermann
Click to expand...

Could it be that you didn't got the point?;)

It seems that people had different expectations when the Trinovids were announced in 2017. Some wanted just a modern version with new coatings, others in addition better edge performance (field flattening lens?), others would prefere the orignial eyepiece focussing mechanism with just 15 mm eyerelief, then there are complains that the present 16 mm are not enough, the original rubber eyegards were better thnn the new ones, the binoculars should be waterproof, or with rubber amor and off course for some the Uppendahl prisms are essential, even others feel that the Trinovids are too expensive in view of their performance. And at the end, collectors are also not a homogenous group, may be some are nostalgic and don't like the very neutral image, prefer a warmer tone, who knows...

Difficult to fulfill almost every wishes


Thomas


p.s. my personal choice, I was hoping for the original wide field or even wider

Neverthless, at the end I am happy with what Leica delivered. If I put all the information here together, it is not fully clear to me why Leica switched to SP Prisms (quality control issues, but the Geovid R uses Uppendahl, straylight control, high price ?). But the actual performace of the Trinovid shows that Leica has indeed the competence to build very good binoculars, can jugde whether issues raised 1991 are relevant or not. On the other hand, I am also not convinced by their new marketing strategy, but this is a general trend not specific to Leica.

So why are so many so dissapointed, is that a reason to start Leica bashing?
 
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Paskman said:
Not sure what was provocative about my post
Click to expand...

Ehhh,.......me owning a Defender 130 with BIG tyres, winch, cruise control, heavy duty axels/suspension, back/mid/front diflock, roll over cage etc.......and I was just talking about the Leica management treatment, and then you came along:-C:-C:-C

Oh yeah, and not to forget the 109 ambulance:t:

Jan
 
Canip said:
I trust you are basing this judgment on some sound personal experience, not hearsay?
;)

[[[Here my very personal 2 ct on „average-performing“ based on my individual interaction with the Retrovid 7x35:
this is currently the best 7x35 on the market, and there currently are very few 7x40 / 7x42 binos that are as good or better than it.
And I like the 8x40 even better ... ]]]
Click to expand...

I had a brief look at the 7x35 yesterday at Leica Store Mayfair, and found the view a bit disappointing. Very pretty binoculars, but not more so than the Ultravid 8x42BL.

As for being the best 7x35 in the market, there aren't any others above 1/10 of its price, so that's not saying very much.

If I were in the market for binoculars, I'd probably get the Nikon MHG 8x42 or the Zeiss 8x42 SF instead.
 
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jan van daalen said:
Ehhh,.......me owning a Defender 130 with BIG tyres, winch, cruise control, heavy duty axels/suspension, back/mid/front diflock, roll over cage etc.......and I was just talking about the Leica management treatment, and then you came along:-C:-C:-C

Oh yeah, and not to forget the 109 ambulance:t:

Jan
Click to expand...

:t::'D
 
Chosun Juan said:
https://insideevs.com/news/398981/f...CMSNg1hqlt73dbQrayCjomu7qbXDP-uEDeJrCbRYyQnGc

Seems to be a lot of thus going on ..... jewelry shops squeezing on one side, faceless order books queued in remote computer memory on the other :eek!:

Chosun :gh:
Click to expand...

In fairness, most people really don't want to ever visit a car dealer, much less deal with them. They have a dreadful reputation, at least here in the US.
Add to that the reality that electrics don't need as much maintenance as IC engine powered cars, Ford's move makes good sense.

It has been coherently argued that the lack of dealer support killed the GM Volt, which was a well conceived hybrid. Ford's solution is to cut out the dealer from the equation. Given the reality of trade ins, that may be a risky choice, but it does wipe the slate clean for E cars as a new start.
 
etudiant said:
In fairness, most people really don't want to ever visit a car dealer, much less deal with them. They have a dreadful reputation, at least here in the US.
Add to that the reality that electrics don't need as much maintenance as IC engine powered cars, Ford's move makes good sense.

It has been coherently argued that the lack of dealer support killed the GM Volt, which was a well conceived hybrid. Ford's solution is to cut out the dealer from the equation. Given the reality of trade ins, that may be a risky choice, but it does wipe the slate clean for E cars as a new start.
Click to expand...

To bring this into the perspective of the optics branch:
The product is everywhere the same, so the dealer with the dreadful reputation won't make it anyway from the consumers point of view.
That brings us to the lack of dealer support to the brand (read: Leica) from the multi brand dealers side regarding the Leica sales compared to the other brand sales (read: Zeiss/Swarovski).
It is an undeniable fact that the consumer, given a choice between the Noctivid, SF and ELSV, does not fall in love for the Noctivid.
Seen in that light is the Leica move: "Don't give the customer a multi brand choice" more understandable.
Is it a right one? The future will tell.

Jan
 
They could always build a better mousetrap ! :king:

Jan - what are the reasons the customer's are giving for not choosing the Noctivid in preference to the other big two (or any other binocular) .... ? :cat:






Chosun :gh:
 
Chosun Juan said:
They could always build a better mousetrap ! :king:

Jan - what are the reasons the customer's are giving for not choosing the Noctivid in preference to the other big two (or any other binocular) .... ? :cat:






Chosun :gh:
Click to expand...

:gh::gh:,

The overall consensus is:
Between the three, the Noctivid feels the most heavy, the strap connection bites in the hand and while holding the fingertips touch a nasty edge. There are no complaints about the view.
And what follows is the big question and we could put that in the box "dealer support" and that is: "What is the difference in after sales/service/warranty".
The honest and only answer from us is that all three brands have the same warranty but when it comes to coulance there is only one brand that is far above the rest and her name is Swarovski.
On that moment the Nocti is the first to leave the table and it is SF versus ELSV.
The better balance and FOV of the SF against the after sales of Swarovski.
To prove my point, we still have the Noctivid minus 30% and it still won't sell.

Jan
 
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Thanks for that input Jan :t:
I've always felt the NV was somewhat of a little missed opportunity for Leica - seems I'm not the only one that values the feel of, and actual light weight :flyaway:





Chosun :gh:


P.S. Had to look up "coulance" - learnt a new word today - I think !
 
jan van daalen said:
To bring this into the perspective of the optics branch: The product is everywhere the same....

Seen in that light is the Leica move: "Don't give the customer a multi brand choice" more understandable.
Is it a right one? The future will tell.

Jan
Click to expand...

Perhaps Apple, whose business model is the 'walled garden' to keep the customer locked in, is the inspiration here.
The key though is that there has to be a garden in the first place, else customers stray.
 
etudiant said:
Perhaps Apple, whose business model is the 'walled garden' to keep the customer locked in, is the inspiration here.
The key though is that there has to be a garden in the first place, else customers stray.
Click to expand...

And in the same garden can be found the Apple Store, Gucci, Coach, Tesla, Leica...

There are shopping areas around here that make that possible.

-Bill
 
jan van daalen said:
That brings us to the lack of dealer support to the brand (read: Leica) from the multi brand dealers side regarding the Leica sales compared to the other brand sales (read: Zeiss/Swarovski).
It is an undeniable fact that the consumer, given a choice between the Noctivid, SF and ELSV, does not fall in love for the Noctivid.

Jan
Click to expand...

Sounds like you're well rid of a third class product then... :t:
 
Hi Jan,

Now I understand why you had such a nice discount on the Leica’s in your store.

Too bad Leica is doing this to their dealers. Lucky for me in this case, that you are not just letting this happen. But I totally understand that you are doing this
I really enjoy my Trinovid 10x42HD now hoping for better weather to use them a bit more.
 
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