Join for FREE
It only takes a minute!
Zeiss - Always on the lookout for something special – Shop now

Welcome to BirdForum.
BirdForum is the net's largest birding community, dedicated to wild birds and birding, and is absolutely FREE! You are most welcome to register for an account, which allows you to take part in lively discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.

Struthideidae

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread
Old Tuesday 20th October 2009, 08:44   #1
Daniel Philippe
Registered User
 
Daniel Philippe's Avatar

 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: France
Posts: 1,009
Struthideidae

HBW 14 (2009), p . 272 :

The name of the family consisting of Corcorax and Struthidea alone has normally been listed as "Corcoracidae", but in fact the name "Struthideidae" has priority. Both names were coined by Mathews in the 1920s, but the later is older by one year and is therefore the valid name for the family thus constituted.
Daniel Philippe is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old Tuesday 20th October 2009, 22:15   #2
l_raty
laurent raty
 
l_raty's Avatar

 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Brussels, Belgium
Posts: 2,967
Or should it rather be:
"The family name "Struthideidae" is older by one year than the name "Corcoracidae", and thus should normally have priority, but in fact the family consisting of Corcorax and Struthidea alone has always been listed as "Corcoracidae", and this should therefore remain the valid name for the family thus constituted."
...?

[Note Art. 35.5 of the ICZN: "Precedence for names in use at higher rank. If after 1999 a name in use for a family-group taxon (e.g. for a subfamily) is found to be older than a name in prevailing usage for a taxon at higher rank in the same family-group taxon (e.g. for the family within which the older name is the name of a subfamily) the older name is not to displace the younger name."]
l_raty is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old Wednesday 21st October 2009, 00:19   #3
mb1848
Registered User

 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Santa Maria, California USA
Posts: 1,881
Since this question involves family names, I looked in Bock 1994 AMNH:
“Struthideidae Mathews, 1924{Zoonomen dates this to Feb. 21, 1923} (Struthidea Gould, 1837) and Corcoracidae Mathews, 1925-27 (Corcorax Lesson, 1830) have priority with respect to Grallinidae Mathews, 1930 (Grallina Vieillot, 1816), however, Grallinidae should be conserved conditionally in preference to Struthideidae and Corcoracidae for any taxon containing Grallina, Struthidea and Corcorax because it has almost always been used for the family-level taxon containing these three genera. …Struthideidae Mathews 1924 has priority with respect to Coracoracinae Mathews, 1925-27 however Corcoracidae should be conserved conditionally in preference to Struthideidae for any family-level taxon containing Corcorax and Struthidae because this name has generally been used for any family-level taxon containing these two genera….Struthidae can be used for any family-level taxon containing Struthidea but not Corcorax and Grallina."

http://www.environment.gov.au/biodiv...a/CORCORACIDAE .

Although Struthideinae Mathews, 1924 (type genus Struthidea Gould, 1837) is senior to Corcoracinae Mathews, 1927 (type genus Corcorax Gould, 1837) as the valid name for this family when both Corcorax Gould and Struthidea Gould are included in it, Corcoracidae is kept in deference to Bock, Bull. AMNH 222(1994)221

Does HBW have to give deference to Bock if neither he nor anyone went to the ICZN and got anything passed? Mr. Peterson always says that HBW is not a taxonomic work.

http://digitallibrary.amnh.org/dspace/handle/2246/830 .
mb1848 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Thursday 22nd October 2009, 02:17   #4
l_raty
laurent raty
 
l_raty's Avatar

 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Brussels, Belgium
Posts: 2,967
Quote:
Originally Posted by mb1848 View Post
Does HBW have to give deference to Bock if neither he nor anyone went to the ICZN and got anything passed?
Not to Bock. But to the Code, yes. Thus if:
- Struthideinae is in use as a subfamily, and
- Corcoracidae is in prevailing usage for the family including this subfamily,
then, according to Art. 35.5, Struthideidae is not to displace Corcoracidae.

Corcoracidae is a very frequently used name, and even the HBW account recognises that it is the name used "normally" for the family grouping Struthidea and Corcorax.
I think Struthideinae was used as a subfamily of Corcoracidae by Robiller 1986, because, although Google won't allow me to see the text, it finds the book when I search on "Corcoracidae Corcoracinae Struthideinae". This was also followed by Pies-Schulz-Hofen 2004. (Most likely neither would qualify as taxonomic works, though...)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mb1848 View Post
Mr. Peterson always says that HBW is not a taxonomic work.
I find it difficult to categorise HBW...
l_raty is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old Thursday 22nd October 2009, 05:57   #5
mb1848
Registered User

 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Santa Maria, California USA
Posts: 1,881
I do not speak for Dr. Peterson and notice he thanks Anna Latorre, documentalist for the HBW series, for corrections on biographical details. From my reading around the edges I think Robiller made Struthideinae its own family which would be okey-dokey with Bock's analysis. Thanks for explaining the code again.
mb1848 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Saturday 21st December 2013, 15:42   #6
Richard Klim
-------------------------
 
Richard Klim's Avatar

 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Somerset, UK
Posts: 12,792
ICZN Case 3630

Schodde, Boles, Christidis, Horton, Johnstone, Joseph & Longmore 2013. Case 3630 CORCORACIDAE Mathews, 1927 (Aves) and the spelling melanorhamphos Vieillot, 1817 for the valid name of the type species of its type genus: proposed conservation of usage. BZN 70(4): 238–244. [abstract]

Spelling Corcorax melanorhamphos (H&M3, BirdLife, eBird/Clements, Christidis & Boles 2008) adopted in IOC World Bird List v3.5 (Sep 2013).
www.worldbirdnames.org/updates/taxonomy/
Quote:
Change spelling of species name to melanorhamphos in accordance with Article 82.2 of the Code (SCON/IOU petition to ICZN, Case no. 3630, Schodde pers. comm).

Last edited by Richard Klim : Saturday 21st December 2013 at 15:51.
Richard Klim is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Thursday 8th May 2014, 11:25   #7
Richard Klim
-------------------------
 
Richard Klim's Avatar

 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Somerset, UK
Posts: 12,792
ICZN case

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Klim View Post
Schodde, Boles, Christidis, Horton, Johnstone, Joseph & Longmore 2013. Case 3630 CORCORACIDAE Mathews, 1927 (Aves) and the spelling melanorhamphos Vieillot, 1817 for the valid name of the type species of its type genus: proposed conservation of usage. BZN 70(4): 238244. [abstract]
Dickinson 2014. Comment on the proposed conservation of usage of CORCORACIDAE Mathews, 1927 (Aves) and the spelling melanorhamphos Vieillot, 1817 for the valid name of the type species of its type genus [Case 3630]. BZN 71(1): 3940. [article]
Richard Klim is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 9th October 2015, 12:24   #8
Melanie
Registered User

 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Kassel, Germany
Posts: 2,597
In the upcomming work Bird Families of the World they use CORCORACIDAE

http://issuu.com/lynxeds/docs/bird_f...0569400#search
Melanie is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 9th October 2015, 13:58   #9
Nutcracker
Northumbrian

 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 16,612
Probably wise to use Corcoracidae - too much risk of Struthideidae being thought of as being the family containing Struthio
Nutcracker is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 9th October 2015, 16:11   #10
Richard Klim
-------------------------
 
Richard Klim's Avatar

 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Somerset, UK
Posts: 12,792
Winkler et al. Bird Families of the World

Quote:
Originally Posted by Melanie View Post
In the upcomming work Bird Families of the World they use CORCORACIDAE
http://issuu.com/lynxeds/docs/bird_f...0569400#search
Hadn't noticed that Lynx has now posted sample pages. Seems very reasonably priced given that it's almost equivalent to an HBW volume in format/size. I wonder why it wasn't published under the HBW banner, given that it essentially complements the Illustrated Checklist? And will the HBW Alive family accounts ever be updated accordingly...?

PS. Not sure I like the size comparison with human body parts in each family account - a simple scale bar would suffice and be less intrusive!

Last edited by Richard Klim : Friday 9th October 2015 at 20:06.
Richard Klim is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Saturday 10th October 2015, 13:28   #11
MarcelHaas
Registered User

 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Callantsoog, NL
Posts: 90
Bird Families of the World

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Klim View Post
Hadn't noticed that Lynx has now posted sample pages. Seems very reasonably priced given that it's almost equivalent to an HBW volume in format/size. I wonder why it wasn't published under the HBW banner, given that it essentially complements the Illustrated Checklist? And will the HBW Alive family accounts ever be updated accordingly...?

PS. Not sure I like the size comparison with human body parts in each family account - a simple scale bar would suffice and be less intrusive!
Am I the only one who doesn't really see the need for this book? Sure, it does look nice but having all the HBW volumes as well as volume 1 of the Checklist, this book seems a bit odd... I do understand that this new book is a nice overview of all bird families, but my first look at the samples didn't really wet my apetite for it (and believe me: I am a sucker for bird books!) But knowing myself all too well, I'll probably end up forking the 70 euros for it anyway...
MarcelHaas is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Saturday 10th October 2015, 14:00   #12
Richard Klim
-------------------------
 
Richard Klim's Avatar

 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Somerset, UK
Posts: 12,792
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcelHaas View Post
Am I the only one who doesn't really see the need for this book? Sure, it does look nice but having all the HBW volumes as well as volume 1 of the Checklist, this book seems a bit odd... I do understand that this new book is a nice overview of all bird families, but my first look at the samples didn't really wet my apetite for it (and believe me: I am a sucker for bird books!) But knowing myself all too well, I'll probably end up forking the 70 euros for it anyway...
I feel similarly, and doubt that it'll be a big seller for Lynx. We'll then be left with the original HBW family accounts (very detailed and profusely illustrated with stunning photos, but seriously out of date taxonomically in many cases), and an up-to-date but rather superficial new work (1-2 pages per family, with apparently minimal informative text).

Last edited by Richard Klim : Saturday 10th October 2015 at 16:12.
Richard Klim is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Saturday 10th October 2015, 14:55   #13
Nutcracker
Northumbrian

 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 16,612
If it is fully up-to-date compared to HBW (i.e., including Erithacus in Muscicapidae not Turdidae, etc., etc., etc.), then it might be worth getting. Anyone know if it is?
Nutcracker is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Saturday 10th October 2015, 15:57   #14
Richard Klim
-------------------------
 
Richard Klim's Avatar

 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Somerset, UK
Posts: 12,792
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nutcracker View Post
If it is fully up-to-date compared to HBW (i.e., including Erithacus in Muscicapidae not Turdidae, etc., etc., etc.), then it might be worth getting. Anyone know if it is?
I think that's the whole point - it complements and reflects the new (2014/2016) HBW/BirdLife taxonomy. See Winkler et al.

Last edited by Richard Klim : Saturday 10th October 2015 at 16:08.
Richard Klim is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Saturday 10th October 2015, 17:37   #15
Nutcracker
Northumbrian

 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 16,612
Thanks!
Nutcracker is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 20th January 2017, 12:17   #16
l_raty
laurent raty
 
l_raty's Avatar

 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Brussels, Belgium
Posts: 2,967
OPINION 2380 (Case 3630)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Klim View Post
Schodde, Boles, Christidis, Horton, Johnstone, Joseph & Longmore 2013. Case 3630 CORCORACIDAE Mathews, 1927 (Aves) and the spelling melanorhamphos Vieillot, 1817 for the valid name of the type species of its type genus: proposed conservation of usage. BZN 70(4): 238244. [abstract]
ICZN. 2017. OPINION 2380 (Case 3630). CORCORACIDAE Mathews, 1927 (Aves) and Coracia melanorhamphos Vieillot, 1817 (currently Corcorax melanorhamphos): names conserved. Bull. Zool. Nomencl. 73:74-76.
[abstract]
l_raty is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old Monday 23rd January 2017, 10:15   #17
l_raty
laurent raty
 
l_raty's Avatar

 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Brussels, Belgium
Posts: 2,967
Quote:
Originally Posted by l_raty View Post
ICZN. 2017. OPINION 2380 (Case 3630). CORCORACIDAE Mathews, 1927 (Aves) and Coracia melanorhamphos Vieillot, 1817 (currently Corcorax melanorhamphos): names conserved. Bull. Zool. Nomencl. 73:74-76.
[abstract]
I got the year wrong here, actually. It should have been
ICZN. 2016. OPINION 2380 (Case 3630). CORCORACIDAE Mathews, 1927 (Aves) and Coracia melanorhamphos Vieillot, 1817 (currently Corcorax melanorhamphos): names conserved. Bull. Zool. Nomencl. 73:74-76.
[abstract]
l_raty is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old Tuesday 24th January 2017, 07:36   #18
Peter Kovalik
Registered User
 
Peter Kovalik's Avatar

 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Sp. Hrhov
Posts: 2,718
Quote:
Originally Posted by l_raty View Post
I got the year wrong here, actually. It should have been
ICZN. 2016. OPINION 2380 (Case 3630). CORCORACIDAE Mathews, 1927 (Aves) and Coracia melanorhamphos Vieillot, 1817 (currently Corcorax melanorhamphos): names conserved. Bull. Zool. Nomencl. 73:74-76.
[abstract]
TiF Update January 23, 2017

Mudnesters: The scientific name of the White-winged Chough is now Corcorax melanorhamphos, not melanoramphos as the ICZN has resolved the controversy over the name (Opinion 2380). In the same decision, they conserved the family name Corcoracidae over Struthideidae.
Peter Kovalik is offline  
Reply With Quote
Advertisement
Reply


Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

{googleads}

Fatbirder's Top 1000 Birding Websites

Help support BirdForum

Page generated in 0.20359898 seconds with 28 queries
All times are GMT. The time now is 13:18.