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ID Help Finches, NW Mexico (1 Viewer)

Two Jugs

Two Jugs

Well-known member
This is, I fear, the first of a number of posts requesting help, following my recent trip to North West Mexico.

EDIT. Thats Mazatlan, Sinaloa, Mexico

Three birds in the same fruit tree outside the hotel balcony. Are they all House Finches, please?

Tony
 

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Streaked UTC's would make it Cassin's, the default on range as well......although recent posts have shown vagrant Purple's in Arizona.

Edit- The bird certainly doesn't seem to have the straight-edged culmen of a Cassin's, looks strongly curved like House Finch. [throws up hands and walks away....]
 
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I'm going to change my mind and agree with Jeff, Purple Finch, which would be a NM vagrant.

I would have to say the UTC streaks are just an anomaly [as they are in a very few Purple's]. Otherwise, it is too red below [and unstreaked], too short-winged and too uniformly coloured above for Cassin's, as well a bill shape being off.

Maybe there is a big influx of Purples in the SW this winter............maybe I should'a stayed out of this thread?
 
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Two Jugs said:
This is, I fear, the first of a number of posts requesting help, following my recent trip to NW Mexico.
Click to expand...

By "NW Mexico" do you mean New Mexico or Northwest Mexico? If the latter, where exactly? (I ask bcs Purple Finch regularly winters as far south as Baja Cal. Norte).

Best,
Jim
 
Finches in Mexico

Photos were taken in El CID hotel in Mazatlan, Sinaloa. As discussed, birds are very red, but Purple and Cassin's Finch are not in this area according to Howell & Webb.

J. Moore said:
By "NW Mexico" do you mean New Mexico or Northwest Mexico? If the latter, where exactly? (I ask bcs Purple Finch regularly winters as far south as Baja Cal. Norte).

Best,
Jim
Click to expand...
 
I see that it lacks streaks on the flanks, but it also lacks colour in the coverts and cheeks. And with that curved culmen it sure looks like a house finch to me.

Scott
 
james holdsworth said:
I'm going to change my mind and agree with Jeff, Purple Finch, which would be a NM vagrant.

I would have to say the UTC streaks are just an anomaly [as they are in a very few Purple's]. Otherwise, it is too red below [and unstreaked], too short-winged and too uniformly coloured above for Cassin's, as well a bill shape being off.

Maybe there is a big influx of Purples in the SW this winter............maybe I should'a stayed out of this thread?
Click to expand...

Boy, I shoulda' stayed out of this thread, I thought we were talking about New Mexico.:flyaway:
 
Not a finch?

Is it possible that the 2nd bird is a Tanager? None of my references show any red at the rear of any possible finch.

Tony
 
Two Jugs said:
Is it possible that the 2nd bird is a Tanager? None of my references show any red at the rear of any possible finch.

Tony
Click to expand...

It's clearly a Carpodacus finch. All have red rumps (see flight pictures in Sibley if you have it). There's one report on eBird of a Purple Finch in Sonora, but looks like that was in the mountains. Your bird still puzzles me. Among other things, Purple shouldn't have the streaked undertail coverts AFAIK, and House should have more flank streaking. If you are motivated you might post to Frontiers of ID http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/FRID.html and see if you get a response. That's all I can think of.

Best,
Jim

PS: One other thought is that it might be domestically bred variant that was released. HF are kept in captivity in some parts. But that's just speculation.
 
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House Finch

Long tails, curved culmens, and dingy wingbars make these birds House Finches, no? The bright color is explained by two circumstances many birders ignore: geographic variation and seasonal wear. House Finch males get redder and redder the farther south you go in their range. And the pale "veiling" of fresh breast feathers abrades and erodes as the winter proceeds.
 
Rick Wright said:
Long tails, curved culmens, and dingy wingbars make these birds House Finches, no?
Click to expand...

I'm finding these birds very puzzling, too, but doesn't the absence of prominent streaking on the flanks pretty much rule out House Finch? This is especially visible on the third pic.
 
RJP said:
I'm finding these birds very puzzling, too, but doesn't the absence of prominent streaking on the flanks pretty much rule out House Finch? This is especially visible on the third pic.
Click to expand...

My thoughts as well.

I certainly considered geographic variation of HOFI for these birds, but not to the point where they no longer looked like HOFI's.
 
Hi Rick,

There's more to it than that though, surely? House finch is supposed to have a brownish, streaked mantle, so too the hind crown; and look at the pale crescent beneath the eye - more like Cassin's. Would you say the colour saturation is obscuring the streaks we would expect to see?
I agree re the bill, though - that looks like House!

H
 
james holdsworth said:
Looks good for House Finch, as the Mexican races apparently have more extensive red below and pale or near absent flank streaking.......learn something new everyday.
Click to expand...

Interesting! Thanks for this. But a penalty flag on those Mexican birds for confusing us. Weren't we supposed to construct a fence or something, to keep that from happening? ;)
 
More photos

I have posted several more photos, including possible female/juveniles at

www.twojugs.ca/Finch.htm

Its looking like House Finch is the strong favourite, but they are certainly more colourerful than those currently on my garden feeder!!

Many thanks all.
Tony
 
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