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Old Friday 26th September 2014, 07:19   #3051
lou salomon
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this is a caspian gull (male type). did it really have pale irides?
but this one: http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=291772 a female yellow-legged.
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Old Saturday 4th October 2014, 19:15   #3052
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Immature Gull Identification

Can anyone identify this gull for me? The photograph was taken in February at the mouth of the río Guadalquivir in southern Spain.
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Old Saturday 4th October 2014, 23:14   #3053
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hi david,

it's a 1st winter (2nd calendar year) yellow-legged gull (larus michahellis).
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Old Sunday 5th October 2014, 09:43   #3054
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Thank you Lou. I thought it was but was not sure.
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Old Tuesday 7th October 2014, 18:40   #3055
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Hi,all!
Is this a Common Tern?

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Old Tuesday 7th October 2014, 22:36   #3056
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that's an adult whiskered (chl. hybridus), odysseas.

yamas,
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Old Wednesday 8th October 2014, 13:55   #3057
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Thank you very much ,Lou!
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Old Wednesday 5th November 2014, 08:57   #3058
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Hi all for a long time later. I have to far away from gulls because of i started to stay in the middle of turkey. I want to ask this gull. This photo taken on Trabzon / Turkey on 14.02.2014 by Hakan Kahraman. it looks Larus fuscus heuglini. What are you thinking about?
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Old Wednesday 5th November 2014, 10:39   #3059
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I would agree with Heuglin's Gull for this bird. By the way, great pictures.
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Old Wednesday 5th November 2014, 15:00   #3060
lou salomon
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indeed. you can call this bird heuglini with a good amount of certainty! much black in wingtip (reaching well down to p4), striation concentrated in nape/hindneck, longish bill.
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Old Wednesday 5th November 2014, 15:10   #3061
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Some pictures from Vadu (CT), Romania, August 2014.
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Old Wednesday 5th November 2014, 17:19   #3062
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nice cristian. is that a 3rd cycle cach in the first pic? i mean, do you have any shot with its upper wings visible? for a 2nd cycle p10 mirror would be huge.
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Old Wednesday 5th November 2014, 17:33   #3063
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Question gents: How common is it to see a YLG in full juvenile plumage in early november?

Edit: Lou, regarding Cristian's bird above: I think the pattern of P5, discernable owing to translucency (i.e there is a contrasting black tip), indicates a 3rd cycle.

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Old Wednesday 5th November 2014, 18:19   #3064
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i've never seen one, thibaut. but i have seen either nominate michahellis and atlantis (well, the ones from canaries) in september in m.o.less full juvenile plumage. i think a fully juvenile micha in november should be a lesser black-back

as for cristian's cach: p5 mark is pretty large and as such possible in a 2nd cycle (in which you already can well see the contrast between dark primary portions and paler brown basal parts) and there are some darker marks on inner primaries (p1-4) too, so it would be a fairly retarded 3rd cycle cachinnans. bill pattern is more in line with a 2nd cycle one and tail also has a lot of black. there exist 2nd cycle cachis with large/longish p10 marks but they are not common, that's why i was asking. peter (sneaking around ) has a nice photo of such a bird.
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Old Wednesday 5th November 2014, 18:37   #3065
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lou salomon View Post
i think a fully juvenile micha in november should be a lesser black-back
I would have probably said the same thing...But have a look at the pics and see what you think.

Compared to several YLG (1st winter and adults) present next to it*:
- same size, actually among the biggest individuals
- legs seemingly a bit longer than an adult YLG next to it, seen in direct comparison


*interestingly the bird was hanging around with the group of YLGs while the LBBG were on their own, a bit further away.
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Old Wednesday 5th November 2014, 19:08   #3066
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very weird. pale tipped primaries, white head, pale underparts, venetian blind (though acceptable for some graellsii), size and structure and, what appears to be a micha-tail, - all say YLG! don't know if such a thing is known...
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Old Thursday 6th November 2014, 09:44   #3067
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lou salomon View Post
nice cristian. is that a 3rd cycle cach in the first pic? i mean, do you have any shot with its upper wings visible? for a 2nd cycle p10 mirror would be huge.
Unfortunately I don't have a picture with the upper part of the wing.
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Old Thursday 6th November 2014, 17:44   #3068
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This gull was in NW England today.It joined a group of gulls feeding on bread scraps for a minute or two.Initially I thought it was a Ring-billed because of the size( clearly bigger and longer winged than the Commons with it) , the large pale-pink based bill and most of all the tail pattern. However I would expect a more extensive pale window on the inner primaries on a RBG. Could this be a hybrid or even an "eastern-type" Common Gull?
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Old Friday 7th November 2014, 15:17   #3069
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I have been sent those pics today for ID purpose.
I have my opinion but would like confirmation.

Location: near Paris
date: today
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Old Friday 7th November 2014, 17:03   #3070
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hi thibaut,

it's a 3cy caspian gull but could have some argentatus genes: bill shape (esp. at tip), smallish p10 mirror, no p9 mirror and odd tertial pattern for pure caspian. still, surely not any pure breed of the other contenders. however, with these traits it's well within cachinnans variation!
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Old Friday 7th November 2014, 18:38   #3071
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Thanks Lou.

But why isn't it a mich then?
Honestly I have been swaying between cach and mich but finally settled for a mich mostly because of the features you mention about the primary pattern (and seemingly lots of black on underside of p10 but hard to assess). Also jizz somewhat not perfect for Caspian to my eyes.

But I reckon the head is very white.

And compared to this one: http://www.clarebirdwatching.com/archives/3762 I can't see much difference (well gulls have that thing about them: they all look the same!
)

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Old Friday 7th November 2014, 19:12   #3072
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An extra pic the observer just sent me. No more image available after that one.
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Old Friday 7th November 2014, 19:29   #3073
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structure:
- bill is long and narrow (not high)
- eye is small and oval and placed forward and high in the head (-> 3rd pic)
- in the first pic you can see the high bend on breast, a flat belly and a "fat"-bump behind legs, all very typical for caspian gull.

wingtip pattern:
- 3rd cycle micha rarely shows such a large/long p10 mirror. same aged caspians can have a very large mirror plus a p9 mirror, they can have a smaller p10 mirror (like this one) and no p9 mirror but some can have a small p10 mirror only, without any p9 mirror - birds which for a long time really confused me, things like e.g. this: http://www.lou.bertalan.de/gulls/m_p...20january-june or this: http://www.lou.bertalan.de/gulls/m_p...20january-june
- ventral p10 tongue: hard to asses (esp. its end which in caspian ideally would show that nice rectangle) but unfortunately a short p10 tongue is found in quite some 3rd cycle cachs...see the above linked bird with the small p10 mirror (link 2).
- more important: p7-9 show long tongues with rounded ends eating into the black wingtip, something which is fairly typical for cachi, hardly found in 3rd cycle micha (more black in these primaries, tongues not "eating" into the black block.
- in the 2nd pic you can see some dorsal pale tongues in the outer primaries (right wing) - this really excludes michahellis!

- white head can be found in some 3rd cycle michas too at this time of year but surely is rarer than in cachi
- GC pattern: very soft, only a dark hue which is found in some michas too but much rarer than this rel. common type of 3rd cycle cachi.

ergo, a cachinnans - possibly looking odd due to HG genes (the eastern german/polish melting pot produces more and more frankensteins )

cheerio
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Old Friday 7th November 2014, 20:02   #3074
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with the new pic alone i'd have ID-ed it as cachi, even though p10 tongue seems to be really short.
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Old Wednesday 12th November 2014, 15:53   #3075
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Thanks Lou. There has been quite a bit of a debate on this bird, but the consensus is Caspian.

Another bird from today:
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