Join for FREE
It only takes a minute!
Magnifying the passion for nature. Zeiss Victory Harpia 95. New!

Welcome to BirdForum.
BirdForum is the net's largest birding community, dedicated to wild birds and birding, and is absolutely FREE! You are most welcome to register for an account, which allows you to take part in lively discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.

Nikon FF (and DX) Mirrorless rumours/ announcements

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 1 votes, 5.00 average.
Old Friday 12th January 2018, 17:06   #26
Vespobuteo
Registered User

 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Utopia
Posts: 1,822
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chosun Juan View Post
"We demonstrate diffraction-limited achromatic focusing and achromatic imaging from 470 to 670 nm." ..... that's a long way from the entire visible light spectrum of 380 to 750nm (though some define it greater or lesser ranges than this). It only represents 54% ..... so it's hard to see the claims for true white light (the violet light - 410nm - contribution would be missing, as would the deepest of dark reds). I think that might be a case of a looser defined effective claim and reporting exuberance.

At some stage in the future, phase detect on chip catches up to and surpass the DSLR's seperate dedicated phase detect AF system, and rolling shutter is solved to be no longer an issue in Mirrorless. Whether this happens before curved sensors reach DSLR's .... ? ..... probably. Though the hand filling pro DSLR ergonomics will live on.

I would say DSLR's would live on for circa~5years, while at the same time we will have curved sensor mirrorless with DSLR ergos long before that.

Either way while the transition ensues, the collective lens and mount catalogue's combinations and permutations will get a bit messy and/or limiting .... but likely both.

Chosun
470 to 670 nm is about what to expect from an ordinary camera lens. Problem will be diameter though, "aiming to scale to 1 cm".

https://www.lenstip.com/179.9-Lens_r...nsmission.html

Haven't seen any side by side with Lumix G9 and D5 but it seems that contrast detect is closing in on competition.
And 20 fps with continuos AF is faster than any DSLR.

"The Panasonic G9 represents the most capable Contrast Detect AF camera ever released. Proof of this is the fact that is aced all of our autofocus tests"

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/pan...-lumix-dc-g9/6

Last edited by Vespobuteo : Friday 12th January 2018 at 21:29.
Vespobuteo is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Saturday 13th January 2018, 03:25   #27
Chosun Juan
Given to Fly
 
Chosun Juan's Avatar

 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Central West NSW, Australia
Posts: 4,500
Arrow

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vespobuteo View Post
470 to 670 nm is about what to expect from an ordinary camera lens. Problem will be diameter though, "aiming to scale to 1 cm".

https://www.lenstip.com/179.9-Lens_r...nsmission.html

Haven't seen any side by side with Lumix G9 and D5 but it seems that contrast detect is closing in on competition.
And 20 fps with continuos AF is faster than any DSLR.

"The Panasonic G9 represents the most capable Contrast Detect AF camera ever released. Proof of this is the fact that is aced all of our autofocus tests"

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/pan...-lumix-dc-g9/6
That's a nice transmission graph of the Zeiss lens. It all depends on what the transmission levels are outside of the range quoted. Ramping up from 80%+ on both sides evenly is not really going to affect the whiteness of the image to human eyes. I'm puzzled as to what is meant by an "efficiency" of 20% at 500nm in the meta lens paper though .... if that's transmission % then there's a long long way to go regardless of lens diameters achieved.

As far as the contrast detect AF of the Panasonic G9 goes though, being the best 'Contrast Detect' AF system doesn't put it in the same category as the best AF system (Nikon D5), and it's not quite up to the levels you have said.

From the same DP review .....

(some) Cons:
* Depth from Defocus flutter is distracting when shooting action
* EVF resolution drops when shutter is pressed
* 20 fps mode using electronic shutter can result in rolling shutter effect


(from) Conclusion:
" ... while the 20 fps burst mode is limited to about 50 shots, the 9 fps burst speed (using the mechanical shutter) can go for hundreds of frames."

"Even more impressive is the fact the G9 can track a subject at its top burst speed with a very good hit rate. All this is good news, but its worth pointing out that the way in which its Contrast Detect AF system works is by very rapidly 'wobbling' the focus element back and forth to constantly ensure peak sharpness. In use, this 'wobble' or 'flutter' can be pretty distracting in the EVF, especially if you're trying to follow action. This was a problem I consistently ran into while shooting basketball."

"Panasonic made improvements to Dual I.S. 2 in the G9, which works by combining the camera's 5-axis sensor stabilization with lens-based stabilization (on compatible lenses). Those improvements have paid off, because the G9 offers the best stabilization of any camera we've tested. We were able to measure 5 2/3 stops of added hand-hold-ability at 200mm, besting the previous champ EM-1 II at the same focal length by 2/3rds a stop."


The Final Word:
"Of course, for a very similar price to the EM-1 II and G9, one can snag the sports-shooting-beast Nikon D500. To that point, if you are not already invested in a system and stills are your primary focus, I'd have to recommend the D500 over either m43 options. Its AF performance is in a league of its own,"

It is interesting that the G9 only received a 'Silver' award even though it more or less matches the Olympus OM-D EM-1 II, primarily because it is a year on from that camera's 'Gold' award. Salient message for Nikon here - merely matching the hatch does not equal market leadership.

From this, the rest of the competition, and Nikon's own statements of intent re- leading IQ, EVF performance, and it's existing reputation for the best AF, I think we can deduce several important factors around Nikon's Mirrorless offering:-
(i) Nikon is likely to offer high end model$ despite the compact body size
(ii) No mention has been made of IBIS but I think it would be a must, and would have to at least equal the best if not move the game on
(iii) The EVF will have to be the best ever seen. It will have to be without compromise as seen on the competition.
(iv) AF performance will have to trump the competition.

Wishes:
** I would love to see an exposure histogram visible in the part of the EVF during normal focusing along with all the other usual information - this would make exposure compensation so much easier. Does anyone know of another camera that does this?
** I would love to see not only 'eye-start' AF as on my old film Minolta SLR, but continuous 'eye-directed AF' as well
** An add-on horizontal battery grip in hand filling DSLR style



Chosun
Chosun Juan is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2016 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Saturday 13th January 2018, 08:34   #28
HermitIbis
Registered User
 
HermitIbis's Avatar

 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Black Forest
Posts: 433
Maybe software engineers can tame the G9's wobbling/fluttering AF so that it behaves less unruly. Still, after reading that review I've lost my interest in the camera. For people with a priority for "birds in flight" the Nikon D500 remains the gold standard.

Edit: Not to forget the Canon 7D Mkii, and the Nikon D7200, and a few others... all phantastic BIF tools. I'd love to see a serious field test how these are doing with small birds flying towards the camera. I don't mind the G9 to participate, not at all. If it wins, I might want one.

Last edited by HermitIbis : Saturday 13th January 2018 at 10:08.
HermitIbis is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Saturday 13th January 2018, 19:34   #29
opticoholic
Registered User
 
opticoholic's Avatar

 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: northern CA
Posts: 309
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chosun Juan View Post
** I would love to see an exposure histogram visible in the part of the EVF during normal focusing along with all the other usual information - this would make exposure compensation so much easier. Does anyone know of another camera that does this?
Chosun
My Olympus E-M1 Mark II does this, and I think most other Olympus models as well. I think most cameras with an EVF should have an option to show a live histogram... I like the shadow/highlight "blinkies" also, as they are a better indicator of whether the bird is over/underexposed, or the other elements in the frame near the bird.

Dave

Last edited by opticoholic : Saturday 13th January 2018 at 19:46.
opticoholic is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2012 2013 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Saturday 13th January 2018, 23:59   #30
Chosun Juan
Given to Fly
 
Chosun Juan's Avatar

 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Central West NSW, Australia
Posts: 4,500
Exclamation

Quote:
Originally Posted by opticoholic View Post
My Olympus E-M1 Mark II does this, and I think most other Olympus models as well. I think most cameras with an EVF should have an option to show a live histogram... I like the shadow/highlight "blinkies" also, as they are a better indicator of whether the bird is over/underexposed, or the other elements in the frame near the bird.

Dave
I MUST HAVE this feature !



Chosun
Chosun Juan is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2016 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Sunday 14th January 2018, 21:17   #31
Vespobuteo
Registered User

 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Utopia
Posts: 1,822
Quote:
Originally Posted by HermitIbis View Post
Maybe software engineers can tame the G9's wobbling/fluttering AF so that it behaves less unruly. Still, after reading that review I've lost my interest in the camera. For people with a priority for "birds in flight" the Nikon D500 remains the gold standard.

Edit: Not to forget the Canon 7D Mkii, and the Nikon D7200, and a few others... all phantastic BIF tools. I'd love to see a serious field test how these are doing with small birds flying towards the camera. I don't mind the G9 to participate, not at all. If it wins, I might want one.
I would not draw conclusions that fast on 1 single review. I've seen other reviewers praising the G9 viewfinder when used for actions shots. But type of usage and preferences might vary.

Last edited by Vespobuteo : Sunday 14th January 2018 at 21:58.
Vespobuteo is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Monday 15th January 2018, 19:11   #32
nikonmike
Registered User

 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: grimsby uk
Posts: 625
Interesting rumor,Sigma lens for Nikon mirrorless

https://www.mirrorlessrumors.com/sig...rless-cameras/
__________________
Olympus EM10MK11,OLYMPUS EM1MK11,Panasonic 100-400
nikonmike is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Wednesday 17th January 2018, 19:28   #33
opticoholic
Registered User
 
opticoholic's Avatar

 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: northern CA
Posts: 309
Thanks Mike,
That is an encouraging rumor. I like Sigma, more than Nikon when it comes to lenses lately.

Thom Hogan has a new blog post where he makes his predictions for Nikon in 2018. Look down near the end for the predictions... I daresay Thom is even more long-winded than Chosun or I! :)

http://www.dslrbodies.com/newsviews/nikons-2018.html

It seems lot of folks don't like Thom. I actually agree with most of what he says and I've often thought it's too bad he isn't in charge at Nikon. Anyway it does sound like it will be a landmark or "big reveal" year for Nikon, finally, and we may know more pretty soon.

Dave

Last edited by opticoholic : Wednesday 17th January 2018 at 19:32.
opticoholic is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2012 2013 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Thursday 18th January 2018, 01:31   #34
Chosun Juan
Given to Fly
 
Chosun Juan's Avatar

 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Central West NSW, Australia
Posts: 4,500
Quote:
Originally Posted by opticoholic View Post
Thanks Mike,
That is an encouraging rumor. I like Sigma, more than Nikon when it comes to lenses lately.

Thom Hogan has a new blog post where he makes his predictions for Nikon in 2018. Look down near the end for the predictions... I daresay Thom is even more long-winded than Chosun or I! :)

http://www.dslrbodies.com/newsviews/nikons-2018.html

It seems lot of folks don't like Thom. I actually agree with most of what he says and I've often thought it's too bad he isn't in charge at Nikon. Anyway it does sound like it will be a landmark or "big reveal" year for Nikon, finally, and we may know more pretty soon.

Dave
I think Thom has been reading this thread!

I hope that Nikon does come out with a D500S and a D5S, they could certainly gain a lot of leverage off their leading performance and marketing investment to date. I also hope they come out with that lightened (《2.27kg) FL glass 300mm f2.8. Surely those are 3 pretty easy goals to kick?

As for the D760 upgrade, surely that can't be that complex or onerous a task either considering all the D5, D500, D850 runs on the board.

I wouldn't mind betting that Nikon release both high end, AND more volume market prosumer level Mirrorless offerings in FX and DX formats.

The D610 ? .... probably best to let that die a lonely death in peace. The D3400 ? Either upgrade the connectivity, or maybe it goes the same way ....... surely Mirrorless replaces this entry level sooner rather than later?

The Df ? A retro styling and UI exercise. There is plenty in the parts bin to upgrade this stylish offering. A 51-pt 3D tracking AF system should be the minimum going forward for any DSLR ....

I certainly agree with Thom - Nikon needs to be next to market with a FF Mirrorless (certainly in front of Canon), and they need to curtail market leakage to MFT. Also, the lens issue is key. All of these existing DSLR/ new Mirrorless conundrums are not really questions of Engineering resource, or even financial ones, but that of Strategic Marketing/ Direction.

Here is some latest domestic market information:
https://m.dpreview.com/news/09666569...-in-mirrorless

I think Thom is being somewhat optimistic on curved sensors ..... but if by some miracle, Nikon surprised us later this year with a curved sensor FF Mirrorless and purpose designed PF(c) 600mm f4, I'd be a paid up member for life!



Chosun

Last edited by Chosun Juan : Thursday 18th January 2018 at 02:01.
Chosun Juan is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2016 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Thursday 18th January 2018, 05:01   #35
nikonmike
Registered User

 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: grimsby uk
Posts: 625
I did wonder last year if the none launch of the DL and the continued wind-down of the 1 series was an indication Nikon wanted a clean sheet for a mirrorless range launch.
I know they closed factories and that put production stress on the ones that were left but they said the market wasn't right for 1 inch sensor compact/bridge cameras, Panasonic and Sony may disagree with that.
One interesting patent was for a 2x crop lens i think that means m4/3
__________________
Olympus EM10MK11,OLYMPUS EM1MK11,Panasonic 100-400
nikonmike is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Thursday 18th January 2018, 07:20   #36
HermitIbis
Registered User
 
HermitIbis's Avatar

 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Black Forest
Posts: 433
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikonmike View Post
I did wonder last year if the none launch of the DL and the continued wind-down of the 1 series was an indication Nikon wanted a clean sheet for a mirrorless range launch.
I know they closed factories [...]
These factories were probably unable to produce the new curved sensors for the improved Nikon 1+ series.
HermitIbis is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Thursday 18th January 2018, 07:21   #37
Chosun Juan
Given to Fly
 
Chosun Juan's Avatar

 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Central West NSW, Australia
Posts: 4,500
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by HermitIbis View Post
These factories were probably unable to produce the new curved sensors for the improved Nikon 1+ series.
Chosun Juan is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2016 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Thursday 18th January 2018, 08:13   #38
Chosun Juan
Given to Fly
 
Chosun Juan's Avatar

 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Central West NSW, Australia
Posts: 4,500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikonmike View Post
I did wonder last year if the none launch of the DL and the continued wind-down of the 1 series was an indication Nikon wanted a clean sheet for a mirrorless range launch.
I know they closed factories and that put production stress on the ones that were left but they said the market wasn't right for 1 inch sensor compact/bridge cameras, Panasonic and Sony may disagree with that.
One interesting patent was for a 2x crop lens i think that means m4/3
I think cancelling the DL series was the right move. The 1" fixed lens market needs to be done exceptionally well (like the Sony RX10 IV) - you can't just turn up and collect $200 just for passing GO - that whole 'compact' (well slightly larger than compact sensor) market is gone (as far as profitability and efficient use of resources goes). Smartphones with rapidly progressing technology and computational photography will own that arena, and they would've done nothing to address MFT etc.

Between Nikon's Mirrorless APS-C and the "1" series which they need to resurrect and do properly, they've got it covered from a pocketable compact camera, a compact system, long telephoto (with suitable 1 series adapters), low light high IQ and a relatively small system with APS-C (certainly not much, if any, physically bigger than MFT)

The DL line would have done nothing to trump the class leading (and defining I would say) Sony RX10 IV. They really need to benchmark that and beat it. I think such a 1" bridge camera with great IQ (stacked BSI CMOS), and cutting edge phase detect AF that will handle BIF with long AND f-a-s-t lens (600 ~ 800mm f4 + in-camera crop) that also stretches to have a useful wide angle (20 ~ 24mm f2) and great 4K video is a fantastic niche to be in. It pretty much negates a lot of MFT. Ideally a curved sensor iteration would slay it, and the sensor could do double duty in the "new" "1" series system as well. Could Nikon have gotten out of China due to plans in this area and Intellectual Property concerns ??

That still leaves room for their Uber zoom P900 (or 1000 successor) to exist alongside.

The two-tiered Mirroless approach I suggested for both FF and DX formats covers the rest of the competition.

The 2x crop patent is a bit bizarre and unecessary. I sure hope they don't go there ..... The rest of the formats done well as I have outlined will out compete that crowded segment.


Chosun
Chosun Juan is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2016 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Thursday 18th January 2018, 10:14   #39
nikonmike
Registered User

 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: grimsby uk
Posts: 625
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chosun Juan View Post
I think cancelling the DL series was the right move. The 1" fixed lens market needs to be done exceptionally well (like the Sony RX10 IV) - you can't just turn up and collect $200 just for passing GO - that whole 'compact' (well slightly larger than compact sensor) market is gone (as far as profitability and efficient use of resources goes). Smartphones with rapidly progressing technology and computational photography will own that arena, and they would've done nothing to address MFT etc.

Between Nikon's Mirrorless APS-C and the "1" series which they need to resurrect and do properly, they've got it covered from a pocketable compact camera, a compact system, long telephoto (with suitable 1 series adapters), low light high IQ and a relatively small system with APS-C (certainly not much, if any, physically bigger than MFT)

The DL line would have done nothing to trump the class leading (and defining I would say) Sony RX10 IV. They really need to benchmark that and beat it. I think such a 1" bridge camera with great IQ (stacked BSI CMOS), and cutting edge phase detect AF that will handle BIF with long AND f-a-s-t lens (600 ~ 800mm f4 + in-camera crop) that also stretches to have a useful wide angle (20 ~ 24mm f2) and great 4K video is a fantastic niche to be in. It pretty much negates a lot of MFT. Ideally a curved sensor iteration would slay it, and the sensor could do double duty in the "new" "1" series system as well. Could Nikon have gotten out of China due to plans in this area and Intellectual Property concerns ??

That still leaves room for their Uber zoom P900 (or 1000 successor) to exist alongside.

The two-tiered Mirroless approach I suggested for both FF and DX formats covers the rest of the competition.

The 2x crop patent is a bit bizarre and unecessary. I sure hope they don't go there ..... The rest of the formats done well as I have outlined will out compete that crowded segment.


Chosun
If they go with the 2x crop (m4/3) ime sure they will be able to make it none compatible with other m4/3.

P900 replacement i want.

CX although i would have liked to stay with it lack of development and backward steps like removing the EVF on the V3 pushed me into m4/3.
The reason ime happy to drop sensor size is even on DX and still with m4/3 most of my images get cropped so ime not really dropping sensor size.
__________________
Olympus EM10MK11,OLYMPUS EM1MK11,Panasonic 100-400
nikonmike is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 19th January 2018, 07:56   #40
nikonmike
Registered User

 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: grimsby uk
Posts: 625
means nothing to me but it may to others

https://nikonrumors.com/2018/01/18/a...-z-mount.aspx/

Nikon patent new sensor

http://thenewcamera.com/nikon-patent...d-cmos-sensor/
__________________
Olympus EM10MK11,OLYMPUS EM1MK11,Panasonic 100-400

Last edited by nikonmike : Friday 19th January 2018 at 08:00.
nikonmike is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Monday 22nd January 2018, 18:37   #41
nikonmike
Registered User

 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: grimsby uk
Posts: 625
New focus motor technology for Nikon's mirrorless lenses

https://nikonrumors.com/2018/01/22/n...f-motors.aspx/
__________________
Olympus EM10MK11,OLYMPUS EM1MK11,Panasonic 100-400
nikonmike is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Wednesday 24th January 2018, 16:04   #42
nikonmike
Registered User

 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: grimsby uk
Posts: 625
Patent for dual pixel and time of flight measurement

https://www.mirrorlessrumors.com/new...similar-canon/
__________________
Olympus EM10MK11,OLYMPUS EM1MK11,Panasonic 100-400
nikonmike is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Tuesday 30th January 2018, 00:40   #43
opticoholic
Registered User
 
opticoholic's Avatar

 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: northern CA
Posts: 309
Yet more rambling speculations/predictions from Thom:
http://www.sansmirror.com/newsviews/...ss-rumors.html

He's telling us to expect consumer-oriented DX mirrorless first, and he says the big launch/announcement may not come until April.

Dave
opticoholic is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2012 2013 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Friday 9th February 2018, 15:12   #44
Chosun Juan
Given to Fly
 
Chosun Juan's Avatar

 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Central West NSW, Australia
Posts: 4,500
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by nikonmike View Post
Very interesting 'detail' of the Z mount mike .... explains the large diameter. This, in combination with the short FFD should make for inherent geometry that is suitable for fast aperture really wide angles. It should also allow plenty of latitude for IBIS by sensor shift. Both welcome features. Looks like Nikon is headed in the right direction here .....


Chosun
Chosun Juan is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2016 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Friday 9th February 2018, 15:42   #45
Vespobuteo
Registered User

 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Utopia
Posts: 1,822
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chosun Juan View Post
Very interesting 'detail' of the Z mount mike .... explains the large diameter. This, in combination with the short FFD should make for inherent geometry that is suitable for fast aperture really wide angles. It should also allow plenty of latitude for IBIS by sensor shift. Both welcome features. Looks like Nikon is headed in the right direction here .....
Chosun
Did you see any rumors on nikon IBIS?

I'm not sure they will do it, at least not in FF bodies.

ISO performance is good enough, VR in lens is enough.

MFT cameras is more in need of IBIS.
And maybe mostly important for video.

But we'll see in April...
Vespobuteo is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 9th February 2018, 16:07   #46
Chosun Juan
Given to Fly
 
Chosun Juan's Avatar

 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Central West NSW, Australia
Posts: 4,500
Arrow

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vespobuteo View Post
Did you see any rumors on nikon IBIS?

I'm not sure they will do it, at least not in FF bodies.

ISO performance is good enough, VR in lens is enough.

MFT cameras is more in need of IBIS.
And maybe mostly important for video.

But we'll see in April...
No, I haven't seen any credible detail on IBIS, but it's one of the inherent structural possibilities with Mirrorless. It's good to see the new mount has been specified with enough latitude to accommodate it at a future point.

The MFT cameras currently hold the record for IS at the moment at around 5&1/2 to 5&2/3 stops (from memory), and while FF does have better high ISO performance, don't forget that lower ISO's will always deliver better DR even for FF. I could imagine a scenario with a nice long 600mm f4 PF (perhaps with 2x TC) hanging off the front of the new FF Mirrorless - as much IS as possible is desirable under that setup, and the combination of IBIS and lens VR allows a more closely matched frequency response to handheld vibration patterns and amplitudes.

It might not be on the launch iteration, but at least it hasn't been designed out of the equation. At this point I think it's more important to get to market before Canon do with the FF - surely they are quietly plotting and scheming too, and it undoubtedly means more to Nikon than to Canon who already have significant APS-C Mirrorless presence .....


Chosun
Chosun Juan is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2016 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Friday 9th February 2018, 19:57   #47
Vespobuteo
Registered User

 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Utopia
Posts: 1,822
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chosun Juan View Post
No, I haven't seen any credible detail on IBIS, but it's one of the inherent structural possibilities with Mirrorless. It's good to see the new mount has been specified with enough latitude to accommodate it at a future point.

The MFT cameras currently hold the record for IS at the moment at around 5&1/2 to 5&2/3 stops (from memory), and while FF does have better high ISO performance, don't forget that lower ISO's will always deliver better DR even for FF. I could imagine a scenario with a nice long 600mm f4 PF (perhaps with 2x TC) hanging off the front of the new FF Mirrorless - as much IS as possible is desirable under that setup, and the combination of IBIS and lens VR allows a more closely matched frequency response to handheld vibration patterns and amplitudes.

It might not be on the launch iteration, but at least it hasn't been designed out of the equation. At this point I think it's more important to get to market before Canon do with the FF - surely they are quietly plotting and scheming too, and it undoubtedly means more to Nikon than to Canon who already have significant APS-C Mirrorless presence .....


Chosun
Panasonic claims 6.5 stops with DualIS in the Lumix G9 up to 280mm eqv. focal length.
6.5 stops seem to be the limit of what is possible in theory is my impression.

Sony IBIS is clearly behind Pana and Olympus.

Latest Nikon VR lenses I think is 4.5 stops now.

In my world, 4.5 stops is plenty as when we get below 1/125s you won't freeze any movement, and often you prefer at least 1/250 or even 1/500.

At 1000+ mm I think a tripod is pretty useful in most cases.

Will be interesting to see what Nikon does with the
mirrorless this time. They are not stupid and can learn from
others (and their own) mistakes.

Last edited by Vespobuteo : Friday 9th February 2018 at 19:59.
Vespobuteo is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Saturday 10th February 2018, 01:16   #48
Chosun Juan
Given to Fly
 
Chosun Juan's Avatar

 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Central West NSW, Australia
Posts: 4,500
Arrow

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vespobuteo View Post
Panasonic claims 6.5 stops with DualIS in the Lumix G9 up to 280mm eqv. focal length.
6.5 stops seem to be the limit of what is possible in theory is my impression.

Sony IBIS is clearly behind Pana and Olympus.

Latest Nikon VR lenses I think is 4.5 stops now.

In my world, 4.5 stops is plenty as when we get below 1/125s you won't freeze any movement, and often you prefer at least 1/250 or even 1/500.

At 1000+ mm I think a tripod is pretty useful in most cases.

Will be interesting to see what Nikon does with the
mirrorless this time. They are not stupid and can learn from
others (and their own) mistakes.
It WILL be interesting to see what Nikon does with Mirrorless.

It will also be interesting to see if they immediately, or down the track go with an IBIS (hard to see them not to when the competition does and Nikon has stated a desire to lead the pack - and it's a tangible feature that comes at very small cost and weight penalties)

The 4.5 stops of Nikon's VR might be good, but 5.5, or 6.5 would be better - remember it's not just about what shutter speeds you can get down to at a reasonable ISO, but by how much you can drop the ISO for a desired shutter speed. Usually for fast moving raptors, or flitting little geewhizzits you would want around 1/2000th of a second.

A tripod is useful at 1000mm+ ..... but not nearly as much fun as handheld! :)

You are right though, with Nikon amongst the last to the party as it were, they have had the opportunity to learn from all the pioneering efforts (mistakes AND successes) of others (and their own with the "1" series). It will be interesting to see if Niki can arrive as the Belle of the Ball ! :)



Chosun
Chosun Juan is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2016 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Saturday 10th February 2018, 01:53   #49
HermitIbis
Registered User
 
HermitIbis's Avatar

 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Black Forest
Posts: 433
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chosun Juan View Post
[...] the opportunity to learn from all the pioneering efforts (mistakes AND successes) of others (and their own with the "1" series).
Whatever it is, it will have a smaller crop factor than the 2.7 of the N1 series. I might still like the next reincarnation, no high expectations though. If the new kit lens is a Nikkor 600 PF ...
HermitIbis is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Saturday 10th February 2018, 02:31   #50
etudiant
Registered User
BF Supporter 2018

 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: New York
Posts: 3,958
I don't understand the emphasis on FF cameras for bird photography. It is brute force at the expense of usability in the field.
Obviously there are advantages in terms of diffraction limits to resolution, but the offset is the huge lenses required. Making a long lens light and compact implies a small sensor, but with good sensor technology, high ISO and pixel size in the 1 micron class should be feasible. I'd much rather have innovation on that front than yet another hulking piece of optics 'innovation'.
etudiant is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Advertisement
Reply


Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Nikon mirrorless squidge Nikon 5 Thursday 6th November 2014 21:52
GH4 and other mirrorless vs Nikon D4s njlarsen Micro Four Thirds 4/3 Photography 8 Monday 16th June 2014 16:04
New Nikon Rumours: D400 and 300mm f4.0 Pasquier Nikon 4 Thursday 22nd August 2013 19:22
Nikon rumours Duke Leto Nikon 17 Friday 22nd July 2011 19:49
Nikon D4 Rumours Duke Leto Nikon 2 Tuesday 17th November 2009 10:56

{googleads}

Fatbirder's Top 1000 Birding Websites

Help support BirdForum

Page generated in 0.24172091 seconds with 37 queries
All times are GMT. The time now is 06:24.