Join for FREE
It only takes a minute!
Magnifying the passion for nature. Zeiss Victory Harpia 95. New!

Welcome to BirdForum.
BirdForum is the net's largest birding community, dedicated to wild birds and birding, and is absolutely FREE! You are most welcome to register for an account, which allows you to take part in lively discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.

UK Hawfinch occurence last weekend....?

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread
Old Tuesday 26th December 2017, 09:51   #126
Stephen Dunstan
Registered User
 
Stephen Dunstan's Avatar

 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 3,976
Blog Entries: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by KenM View Post
Just a thought!....with large numbers of Redpolls in continental Europe, and with a Dutch bird found to have a Chinese ring!!!...might their be a correlation with other finch species at present, emanating possibly from the far eastern part of their respective ranges, as a colleague reported perhaps more Hawfinches than usual in and around Budapest this Winter?
Danish bird.

I guess it is possible, though going off one ringed bird is a big jump. I do remember being on Fair Isle when a first for the Western Palearctic turned up, and another the day after I left, and the place was full of 'kazooing' Bullfinches; if it hadn't been for the strange call their origin might not have been thought to be as easterly as it was.
Stephen Dunstan is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Wednesday 27th December 2017, 06:06   #127
CARERY
Registered User
 
CARERY's Avatar

 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Baltic
Posts: 862
Quote:
Originally Posted by KenM View Post
Just a thought!....with large numbers of Redpolls in continental Europe, and with a Dutch bird found to have a Chinese ring!!!...might their be a correlation with other finch species at present, emanating possibly from the far eastern part of their respective ranges, as a colleague reported perhaps more Hawfinches than usual in and around Budapest this Winter?
Hi Ken, just to put things right. In the redpoll thread I mentioned a Redpoll retrapped in the Netherlands with Chinese ring but it was already in 2005. A few days back in Denmark another Chinese-ringed Redpoll was caught...

I also wonder why this autumn obviously several finch species are far more common in Europe than in other years. Can't be a coincidence, can it? I'd love to understand what drives them! Failure of many plants to produce seeds due to frost late in spring? Some meteorological factors?
__________________
Roland

http://birds-in-flight.net
CARERY is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old Tuesday 6th February 2018, 17:10   #128
KenM
Registered User
 
KenM's Avatar

 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: London
Posts: 9,885
Just a question regarding the Oct.'17,UK influx of Hawfinch...I noted during last weeks TV Winterwatch programme that the reason for our invasion, was put down to a storm displacement of birds, that were previously en-route to Southern Europe. If that was the case, then presumably Southern European numbers are down this Winter?

PS on a lighter note, is this the worlds first ''Tri-ped'' Hawfinch.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	P1640348.jpeg  Cocco.Friday 1..jpeg
Views:	62
Size:	124.9 KB
ID:	653244  
KenM is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Tuesday 6th February 2018, 19:39   #129
Nutcracker
Northumbrian

 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 15,983
Quote:
Originally Posted by KenM View Post
Just a question regarding the Oct.'17,UK influx of Hawfinch...I noted during last weeks TV Winterwatch programme that the reason for our invasion, was put down to a storm displacement of birds, that were previously en-route to Southern Europe. If that was the case, then presumably Southern European numbers are down this Winter?
I've seen mention of unusually high numbers in Spain too, including some reaching the Canary Islands. So that seems a very unlikely explanation; I'd go with:

Quote:
Originally Posted by CARERY View Post
Failure of many plants to produce seeds due to frost late in spring? Some meteorological factors?
The widespread severe frosts of the end of April 2017, which killed tree flowers and caused a rare, extensive, multi-species seed crop failure.
Nutcracker is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Tuesday 6th February 2018, 21:54   #130
KenM
Registered User
 
KenM's Avatar

 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: London
Posts: 9,885
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nutcracker View Post
I've seen mention of unusually high numbers in Spain too, including some reaching the Canary Islands. So that seems a very unlikely explanation; I'd go with:

The widespread severe frosts of the end of April 2017, which killed tree flowers and caused a rare, extensive, multi-species seed crop failure.
Yes that does seem to be the most likely cause Nutty and Roland, certainly carrying more credence than BBC1's Springwatch alternative, which came across to me, as possibly "sounding" more speculative than factual.

Cheers
KenM is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Saturday 17th February 2018, 22:04   #131
KenM
Registered User
 
KenM's Avatar

 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: London
Posts: 9,885
300 reported today from Bramblehall Wood, London!!! Would assume that this might be a UK record?....also have there been any record breaking numbers claimed for any other European country so far?

Cheers
KenM is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Saturday 17th February 2018, 22:07   #132
Stephen Dunstan
Registered User
 
Stephen Dunstan's Avatar

 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 3,976
Blog Entries: 16
Higher counts this week, though with mobile and secretive birds it will always be subjective.
Stephen Dunstan is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Thursday 22nd February 2018, 10:35   #133
KenM
Registered User
 
KenM's Avatar

 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: London
Posts: 9,885
Now this am, 420+ reported from Bramblehall Woods, Surrey.

Even allowing for an "approximate" count, this if it isn't already...heading towards a UK record? Assuming this is a build up for a Continental departure, would be interesting to know if there are any other build up, or increases elsewhere in the realm, or come to that the Continent?
KenM is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Thursday 22nd February 2018, 13:31   #134
pratincol
Registered User

 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kendal
Posts: 1,372
Quote:
Originally Posted by KenM View Post
Now this am, 420+ reported from Bramblehall Woods, Surrey.

Even allowing for an "approximate" count, this if it isn't already...heading towards a UK record? Assuming this is a build up for a Continental departure, would be interesting to know if there are any other build up, or increases elsewhere in the realm, or come to that the Continent?
43 Hawfinch reported at Brown Robin Cumbria Wildlife Trust reserve Grange
pratincol is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Thursday 22nd February 2018, 15:10   #135
Nutcracker
Northumbrian

 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 15,983
Still very few and far between 'up north'; in Northumbs, only 2 or 3 at Morpeth, though have heard of a flock of 30 just over the border in Scotland. Several 'traditional' Northumbs Hawfinch sites have yet to report a single one in the whole winter yet, despite regular searches. Hoping that some might come north rather than head off east in the spring!
Nutcracker is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Saturday 24th February 2018, 15:21   #136
Britseye
Registered User

 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Isles of Scilly
Posts: 458
Quote:
Originally Posted by KenM View Post
Now this am, 420+ reported from Bramblehall Woods, Surrey.

Even allowing for an "approximate" count, this if it isn't already...heading towards a UK record? Assuming this is a build up for a Continental departure, would be interesting to know if there are any other build up, or increases elsewhere in the realm, or come to that the Continent?
This is fascinating stuff. Am I right in thinking there was both a flock of 450 and a different flock of 100 this week in Surrey? Had these sites been checked earlier in the winter?

Incidentally I missed all the earlier posts during the October influx. Just wanted to add I saw Hawfinch feeding on, well, hawthorn berries, as the name might imply, but also Coprosma berries and the very last one of several hundred I saw, I watched feeding on Agapanthus seeds.
Britseye is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Saturday 24th February 2018, 16:00   #137
KenM
Registered User
 
KenM's Avatar

 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: London
Posts: 9,885
Quote:
Originally Posted by Britseye View Post
This is fascinating stuff. Am I right in thinking there was both a flock of 450 and a different flock of 100 this week in Surrey? Had these sites been checked earlier in the winter?

Incidentally I missed all the earlier posts during the October influx. Just wanted to add I saw Hawfinch feeding on, well, hawthorn berries, as the name might imply, but also Coprosma berries and the very last one of several hundred I saw, I watched feeding on Agapanthus seeds.
If you check London wiki birds "latest news", you can go through the previous weeks records, and get a feel for their occurence within the area. Yes they enjoy a catholic diet of seeds, berries and stones- Hornbeam, Beech mast, Hawthorn, Blackthorn, Laburnum, Cherry, Mistletoe etc. I suspect they'll have a "crack" at most fruits.

Cheers
KenM is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Saturday 24th February 2018, 17:41   #138
Nutcracker
Northumbrian

 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 15,983
Quote:
Originally Posted by KenM View Post
Yes they enjoy a catholic diet of seeds, berries and stones- Hornbeam, Beech mast, Hawthorn, Blackthorn, Laburnum, Cherry, Mistletoe etc. I suspect they'll have a "crack" at most fruits.
60 genera of trees & shrubs listed in their diet by BWP - so extremely varied
Nutcracker is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Saturday 24th February 2018, 18:25   #139
KenM
Registered User
 
KenM's Avatar

 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: London
Posts: 9,885
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nutcracker View Post
60 genera of trees & shrubs listed in their diet by BWP - so extremely varied
Could be a close relative of yours Nutcracker.
KenM is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Wednesday 7th March 2018, 08:08   #140
KenM
Registered User
 
KenM's Avatar

 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: London
Posts: 9,885
Perhaps a difficult question to answer as it's of an "irruption" nature. Recently I've observed a soliciting female Hawfinch being fed by a male with the resulting courtship chases ensuing, is it likely that this behaviour would only be observed within an intended breeding area?

Cheers
KenM is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Thursday 8th March 2018, 20:23   #141
CARERY
Registered User
 
CARERY's Avatar

 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Baltic
Posts: 862
Quote:
Originally Posted by KenM View Post
Perhaps a difficult question to answer as it's of an "irruption" nature. Recently I've observed a soliciting female Hawfinch being fed by a male with the resulting courtship chases ensuing, is it likely that this behaviour would only be observed within an intended breeding area?

Cheers
This is an interesting question but not easy to answer. I don't know about Hawfinches but as I understand some species of finches are starting to pair-bond already in winter away from breeding grounds or even stay together as a pair. Some interesting facts about Bullfinches: https://phys.org/news/2018-01-bullfinches-years.html. So, I think your observation does not neccessarily mean the Hawfinches intend to breed there...
__________________
Roland

http://birds-in-flight.net
CARERY is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 9th March 2018, 04:20   #142
aeshna5
Registered User

 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Middx
Posts: 3,776
Though I suspect most of these Hawfinches will depart fairly soon I wouldn't be surprised if a small number remain to breed in suitable habitat. Certainly hope so. Still a good number near me at Ruislip Woods where they used to breed a few decades back (before my time here). Time will tell!
aeshna5 is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 9th March 2018, 16:55   #143
KenM
Registered User
 
KenM's Avatar

 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: London
Posts: 9,885
Quote:
Originally Posted by CARERY View Post
This is an interesting question but not easy to answer. I don't know about Hawfinches but as I understand some species of finches are starting to pair-bond already in winter away from breeding grounds or even stay together as a pair. Some interesting facts about Bullfinches: https://phys.org/news/2018-01-bullfinches-years.html. So, I think your observation does not neccessarily mean the Hawfinches intend to breed there...
Yes an interesting link Roland, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the same paring fidelity also extends to Hawfinch. I would hope that "some" will remain to breed in optimum areas, all fascinating stuff from a UK perspective, and one that I'm sure will be followed up by all Hawfinch afficiendos over the next few months....fingers x'd.

PS...I've just noticed on the "garden bird feeding forum", that there is an image of a Hawfinch with a "yellow ring" taken in Wales, would anybody know where that bird might have originated from?, as I suspect returns from this species are few and far between....exciting stuff!

Last edited by KenM : Friday 9th March 2018 at 17:05. Reason: Additional question
KenM is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Tuesday 13th March 2018, 14:54   #144
KenM
Registered User
 
KenM's Avatar

 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: London
Posts: 9,885
Today reported from Bramblehall Wood and Juniper Bottom (London/Surrey) 600!! and 120!! respectively....I'd have thought that mainland Europe would have struggled to make these nos.....?
KenM is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Tuesday 13th March 2018, 14:57   #145
aeshna5
Registered User

 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Middx
Posts: 3,776
Quote:
Originally Posted by KenM View Post
Today reported from Bramblehall Wood and Juniper Bottom (London/Surrey) 600!! and 120!! respectively....I'd have thought that mainland Europe would have struggled to make these nos.....?

Almost a plague of Hawfinches! Must be a wonderful spectacle to see so many in one place + I suspect these numbers may be unprecedented in the UK?
aeshna5 is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old Tuesday 13th March 2018, 15:01   #146
israel
Registered User

 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: west midlands
Posts: 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by KenM View Post
Yes an interesting link Roland, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the same paring fidelity also extends to Hawfinch. I would hope that "some" will remain to breed in optimum areas, all fascinating stuff from a UK perspective, and one that I'm sure will be followed up by all Hawfinch afficiendos over the next few months....fingers x'd.

PS...I've just noticed on the "garden bird feeding forum", that there is an image of a Hawfinch with a "yellow ring" taken in Wales, would anybody know where that bird might have originated from?, as I suspect returns from this species are few and far between....exciting stuff!
I think i read somewhere the bird was rung in the Forest of Dean.
israel is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Tuesday 13th March 2018, 15:20   #147
KenM
Registered User
 
KenM's Avatar

 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: London
Posts: 9,885
Quote:
Originally Posted by israel View Post
I think i read somewhere the bird was rung in the Forest of Dean.
Cheers Israel, I subsequently (if read correctly) that the bird was imaged in West Wales, and that it was only the 2nd recovery from the Forest of Dean!

It would be truly amazing if some (any) of these Surrey birds could be controlled to find a point of origin, I believe isotope analysis could provide some meaningful information....if a sample of birds could be rung....that would truly be a result.

Cheers
KenM is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Tuesday 13th March 2018, 17:53   #148
Steven Gale
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Banstead
Posts: 6
I was the lucky observer to all of this Hawfinch mania at Bramblehall Wood this morning - an account of it can be read here:
http://northdownsandbeyond.blogspot....18/03/600.html
Steven Gale is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Wednesday 14th March 2018, 04:23   #149
aeshna5
Registered User

 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Middx
Posts: 3,776
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Gale View Post
I was the lucky observer to all of this Hawfinch mania at Bramblehall Wood this morning - an account of it can be read here:
http://northdownsandbeyond.blogspot....18/03/600.html
Interesting to read your account Steve, having only previously seen your incredible figures on Londonbirders.
aeshna5 is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old Thursday 15th March 2018, 12:47   #150
jenks86
Registered User

 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Wales
Posts: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by israel View Post
I think i read somewhere the bird was rung in the Forest of Dean.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KenM View Post
Cheers Israel, I subsequently (if read correctly) that the bird was imaged in West Wales, and that it was only the 2nd recovery from the Forest of Dean!

It would be truly amazing if some (any) of these Surrey birds could be controlled to find a point of origin, I believe isotope analysis could provide some meaningful information....if a sample of birds could be rung....that would truly be a result.

Cheers
Gentlemen where are you reading that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jenks86 View Post
Cog, that is a colour ringed bird. Roughly (if you don't want everyone to know exactly) where are you?

Its from one of two projects:

http://www.cr-birding.org/cs/node/130

Or

http://www.cr-birding.org/node/879
Its was C/R as part of the top project according to CR-Birding. Very small possiblity that it could have originally been rinded in the Dean. But last time i spoke to the ringer in charge of the Dean Hawfinch C/R about this bird he hadnt heard that it was.

Last edited by jenks86 : Thursday 15th March 2018 at 13:10.
jenks86 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Advertisement
Reply


Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Hawfinch Malcolm Webb Bird Identification Q&A 15 Friday 20th January 2017 22:16
Muscovy Duck Occurence in East TN UnknownSpecies56 Bird Identification Q&A 3 Tuesday 15th November 2016 15:06
Use of eBird data to determine occurence MichavdB Birds & Birding 3 Tuesday 24th January 2012 16:05
Garden..single occurence species KenM Garden Birds, Bird Feeding & Nestboxes 3 Monday 27th December 2010 14:41

{googleads}
Opticron - NEW DBA VHD+ 8x42, 10x42. Prices from £579

Fatbirder's Top 1000 Birding Websites

Help support BirdForum

Page generated in 0.25638199 seconds with 37 queries
All times are GMT. The time now is 16:50.