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Old Thursday 31st July 2008, 05:11   #1
Markus Lagerqvist
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Skuas

In case anyone has access there's a new study on skua phylogeography out on Molecular Phylogenetics and Evolution:

"Phylogeography of the southern skua complex – rapid colonisation of the southern hemisphere during a glacial period and reticulate evolution".

It can be found here:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...8e984cf726443f
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Old Friday 23rd August 2013, 15:05   #2
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Southern skuas

Quote:
Originally Posted by Markus Lagerqvist View Post
In case anyone has access there's a new study on skua phylogeography out on Molecular Phylogenetics and Evolution:
"Phylogeography of the southern skua complex – rapid colonisation of the southern hemisphere during a glacial period and reticulate evolution".
Ritz, Millar, Miller, Phillips, Ryan, Sternkopf, Liebers-Helbig & Peter 2008. Phylogeography of the southern skua complex—rapid colonization of the southern hemisphere during a glacial period and reticulate evolution. Mol Phylogenet Evol 49(1): 292–303. [abstract] [pdf]
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Old Friday 23rd August 2013, 15:06   #3
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Arctic Skua

Janssen & Mundy (in press). Molecular population genetics of the melanic plumage polymorphism in Arctic skuas (Stercorarius parasiticus): evidence for divergent selection on plumage colour. Mol Ecol. [abstract]
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Old Friday 7th October 2016, 17:53   #4
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Caio J Carlos. How many genera of Stercorariidae are there? Brazilian Journal of Ornithology, Vol. 24 (2), pp. 191-195.

Abstract:
In this contribution I comment on the generic taxonomy of skuas, Stercorariidae, based on the currently available hypotheses of phylogenetic relationships for the group – i.e., the cladograms. Specifically, the different cladograms were examined following Hennig's principle of reciprocal illumination, in which a given hypothesis is evaluated by the extent to which it agrees with competing hypotheses. Currently, all species are often assigned to genus Stercorarius. However, chewing lice- (Insecta, Phthiraptera), behaviour- (territorial display and calls) and molecular-based (mitochondrial DNA) hypotheses of phylogenetic relationships all indicate that Pomarine Skua Stercorarius pomarinus and the species formerly placed in genus Catharacta are monophyletic and sister to a clade comprising Long-tailed S. longicaudus and Parasitic S. parasiticus Skuas. Therefore, contrary to the prevailing view that all species within the family should be placed in a single genus, I argue herein that in a cladistic-based classification by sequencing, both S. parasiticus and S. longicaudus should retain their generic name, whereas S. pomarinus should be transferred to Catharacta, as C. pomarina.

pdf here
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Old Wednesday 29th November 2017, 21:33   #5
l_raty
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Janssen, Mundy. 2017. The genetic basis and enigmatic origin of melanic polymorphism in pomarine skuas (Stercorarius pomarinus). Proc. R. Soc. B 284:20171735.
[abstract]
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Old Monday 13th May 2019, 18:41   #6
Peter Kovalik
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Proposal (831) to SACC

Recognize two genera in Stercorariidae
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Old Monday 13th May 2019, 19:18   #7
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I thought they only propagated a proposal to the other committee if it resulted in a change?

Niels
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Old Monday 13th May 2019, 19:43   #8
Kratter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by njlarsen View Post
I thought they only propagated a proposal to the other committee if it resulted in a change?

Niels
Only if the taxon in question has part of its distribution entirely outside the continent and in the other committee's area; e.g. if the NACC didn't split Blue-vented Hummingbird (entirely in Central America) from Steely-vented (entirely in South America) in this year's proposals, then the SACC would likely not vote on it. But all the jaegers and some skuas occur in both the SACC and NACC, so each Committee can vote on it.
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Old Tuesday 14th May 2019, 11:27   #9
l_raty
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But all the jaegers and some skuas occur in both the SACC and NACC, so each Committee can vote on it.
If I may, though... Wouldn't it make sense to update the proposal in this type of case ? (Or, alternatively, wouldn't it have been more sensible to have both committees voting on it simultaneously ?)
I can't really see the added value in a vote by a second committee, in summer 2019, on a proposal dating from 2017 and which is in any case silent about a quite significant late-2017 work (cf. my post #5 above).

("[...], we re-sequenced four unlinked neutral loci across the skuas. For all four loci, the alleles in the pomarine skua cluster with alleles of the great skuas, and for three out of four loci, the pomarine skua even shares alleles with the great skuas (figure 3).")
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Old Tuesday 14th May 2019, 16:19   #10
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I can't really see the added value in a vote by a second committee,
Hence the value of the IOC (or other global taxonomies) over country or regional committee's.....
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Old Tuesday 14th May 2019, 17:15   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kratter View Post
Only if the taxon in question has part of its distribution entirely outside the continent and in the other committee's area; e.g. if the NACC didn't split Blue-vented Hummingbird (entirely in Central America) from Steely-vented (entirely in South America) in this year's proposals, then the SACC would likely not vote on it. But all the jaegers and some skuas occur in both the SACC and NACC, so each Committee can vote on it.
I am still wondering about why this particular proposal is propagated. The maker of the proposal recommends "no change" and the NACC agreed. Recently, I have seen comments to the SACC proposals that there is a backlog of things that should be done. Why then propagate a "no change" proposal to take up time that could be better used on something else? Is it because the person bringing it forward hopes for a different result? But if so, why not openly state that?

By the way, I hope Laurent's comments about the additional information after the original proposal do get forwarded to the committee.

Niels
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Old Tuesday 14th May 2019, 17:50   #12
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Correction to ‘The genetic basis and enigmatic origin of melanic polymorphism in pomarine skuas (Stercorarius pomarinus)’ (2018)
https://royalsocietypublishing.org/d...rspb.2018.0518 .
These errors have no bearing on the reporting of results, discussion or conclusions of the paper and the text, including figure legends, is unchanged.
Is Catharacta right?
https://sora.unm.edu/sites/default/f...0345-p0348.pdf .
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Old Wednesday 15th May 2019, 06:53   #13
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Yes.
Allen's opinion (Catharacta Brünnich preoccupied by Catarractes Brisson, because they are variant spellings of the same classical word) was conform to American usage of that time, the present Code says otherwise. There is no homonymy between genus-group names differing even by a single letter, whatever the derivation.
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Old Wednesday 15th May 2019, 12:56   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by njlarsen View Post
I am still wondering about why this particular proposal is propagated. The maker of the proposal recommends "no change" and the NACC agreed. Recently, I have seen comments to the SACC proposals that there is a backlog of things that should be done. Why then propagate a "no change" proposal to take up time that could be better used on something else? Is it because the person bringing it forward hopes for a different result? But if so, why not openly state that?

By the way, I hope Laurent's comments about the additional information after the original proposal do get forwarded to the committee.

Niels
The SACC and NACC are completely independent to make their own decisions. So it doesn't matter what the other Committee votes; we (in my case the NACC) should make their own decision. Our goal is to address all publications that advocate changes in the taxonomy or nomenclature, whether we agree or not. Proposal writes often make recommendations, but this need to be the case. In this case, the paper's authors proposed that Catharacta be split from Stercorarrius (parasiticus and longicaudus), so both Committees re bound to vote.
Andy

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Old Wednesday 15th May 2019, 16:54   #15
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Seems a good time to dispose of the name 'jaeger' and call them all skuas, in line with the proposal to treat them all in one genus - particularly when the name division doesn't match what genetic division there is
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Old Wednesday 15th May 2019, 19:33   #16
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Seems a good time to dispose of the name 'jaeger' and call them all skuas, in line with the proposal to treat them all in one genus - particularly when the name division doesn't match what genetic division there is
As they are traditionally named in English anyway..... I've never called them anything else and I don't know anyone who has

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Old Wednesday 15th May 2019, 19:51   #17
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As they are traditionally named in English anyway..... I've never called them anything else and I don't know anyone who has

John
Then I imagine you don't know any Australian or US birders? (Jaeger is used in both countries, per their official checklists.)

(Edit: also the official South African checklist, though I've no idea what common parlance is, and the old Roberts checklist used Skua across the board.)

Last edited by awiner : Wednesday 15th May 2019 at 19:54. Reason: clarification
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Old Friday 17th May 2019, 19:05   #18
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also the official South African checklist, though I've no idea what common parlance is, and the old Roberts checklist used Skua across the board.
On a recent Cape Town pelagic, the very excellent guide switched between Parasitic Jaeger, Arctic Jaeger and Arctic Skua without comment!

Maybe there is no common parlance :)
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Old Saturday 18th May 2019, 02:08   #19
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On a recent Cape Town pelagic, the very excellent guide switched between Parasitic Jaeger, Arctic Jaeger and Arctic Skua without comment!

Maybe there is no common parlance :)

Just for the record.... Jaeger is a Germanic word which means hunter. The Stercorarius sensu stricto do not hunt, while they do occur in the subantarctic... all a bit of a mess really. I think we should just continue to argue this one out for whatever dumb reason.
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Old Saturday 18th May 2019, 06:14   #20
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Then I imagine you don't know any Australian or US birders? (Jaeger is used in both countries, per their official checklists.)

(Edit: also the official South African checklist, though I've no idea what common parlance is, and the old Roberts checklist used Skua across the board.)
Yes, but their versions of English are both subordinate - I won't say inferior - to English (is sensu stricto the phrase I'm looking for?)

John
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Old Saturday 18th May 2019, 09:00   #21
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Yes, but their versions of English are both subordinate - I won't say inferior - to English (is sensu stricto the phrase I'm looking for?)

John
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Old Wednesday 22nd May 2019, 23:49   #22
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Just for the record.... Jaeger is a Germanic word which means hunter. The Stercorarius sensu stricto do not hunt, while they do occur in the subantarctic... all a bit of a mess really. I think we should just continue to argue this one out for whatever dumb reason.
The jaegers do not hunt? Whaaaat. That is all they do in the Arctic, hunt!
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Old Thursday 23rd May 2019, 01:17   #23
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The jaegers do not hunt? Whaaaat. That is all they do in the Arctic, hunt!
No hold on whey.... kleptoparasitism is not hunting, it's when some dude forces you to pay for badly washing your windscreen at the lights when you didn't want it washed in the first place!

Yes they chase, harass, belly pinch, peck, gauge, they can easily cause a lot of damage, although I don't call that hunting. I was talking about jaegers (Long-tailed/ Parasitic ) NOT skuas pecking the shit out of a baby gull or plover. It would be great to see a paper about jaegers "hunting".... please FW. I don't know enough about where Pomarine fits in, but there you go.
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Old Thursday 23rd May 2019, 01:44   #24
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I have a European book that describes food during breeding of LT Jaeger as mainly mice and lemmings, adds things like berries, bird nestlings etc, and finishes by saying the species generally does less kleptoparasitism than other similar species. The same book describes Parasitic as mixing fish from kleptoparasitism with small mammals during breeding.

Niels
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Old Thursday 23rd May 2019, 04:27   #25
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Yes they chase, harass, belly pinch, peck, gauge, they can easily cause a lot of damage, although I don't call that hunting.
Perhaps but, on the other hand, they're not called "hunters". In German, "jagen" also means to chase / to pursue.
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