What is the Noctivid about? (2 Viewers)

Troubador · Oct 8, 2019

wdc said:
Let us peruse a few recent gems from the relentless torrent of babble that emanates from dencoworld:

Denco, post 103:
"I was just in a Cabella's today and I tried a Swarovski SLC 10x42 and sure enough it was harder to turn in the clockwise direction. I told the sales girl and she said she would tell the Sales Rep from Swarovski. Good luck with that I told her! If you buy an SLC CHECK the focuser! "

Denco, Saturday, post 108:
"...and I won't even go into how many Swarovski's I have had with funky focusers."

Denco, Sunday, post 116:
" Many Swarovski's especially SLC's and even SV's have had funky focusers being sticky or having unequal focus tension. I have sent those into Swarovski and usually they come back about the same."

Denco, Monday, post 131:
I didn't say all Swarovski's had funky focusers just a small percentage of them so I don't think it is inherent in their design.

He's all yours Lee! ;-)

b.

Like GiGi I see nothing wrong in Dennis sharing his experiences or indeed changing his mind about binos from time to time.

Going back to the focuser and uneven tension, someone on Birdforum said that the spring was there to prevent any back-lash/free-play in the focus action, something which Dennis hates, and so do I.

Lee

Torview · Oct 8, 2019

Th el is the only integrated focus/diopter system I`v experienced that does not suffer from diopter creep, I`m pretty certain that`s why the spring is there.

Alexis Powell · Oct 8, 2019

Torview said:
Th el is the only integrated focus/diopter system I`v experienced that does not suffer from diopter creep, I`m pretty certain that`s why the spring is there.

You've had a problem with Leica BA/BN/Ultravid? I never have. Nor have I had any problem with Zeiss FL.

--AP

dries1 · Oct 8, 2019

Glass

42za said:
hello All,

This is the way that I see it.

Premium Binoculars have always been expensive beasts , usually only available to a small number of people , and thus the premium manufacturers in the past always tried to ensure that their products were as perfect as they could make them , both mechanically and optically.

In the modern "throwaway" world standards have deteriorated markedly , and the easiest way to cut costs is to compromise on the mechanicals.

I believe that the premium binocular makers are making the mistake of trying to compete with the Chinese mass produced instruments , they will fail and lose their good names if they cannot maintain quality.

Cheers.

I agree with this statement. :t::t:

Andy W.

dwever · Oct 9, 2019

james holdsworth said:
The problem with those experiences is the amazingly contradictory nature of them (shown above nicely), often coming full circle multiple times in a few years....not helpful IMO.

Gilmore Girl said:
Then you just toss them away if they're not helpful. I take all user reviews, impressions, experiences with a grain of salt here. I know that I may have a very different impression when I try the subject bino myself. With that said, I do enjoy reading the reviews here for fun.

Yes, defend someone’s right to have a shifting opinion when they’re assimilating new evidence or reconsidering existing evidence. Shifting reality, not so much, it is inauthentic and diminishes the purpose of this site.

tenex · Oct 9, 2019

Troubador said:
If we go back a few years to when Brock was around, I remember there were many many discussions and arguments about Swaro focusers and unless my memory is faulty (quite possible) I am sure it was discovered that Swaros have a spring in the focus mechanism which helps you to turn the focus in one direction but you have to push against in the other, hence the 'uneven tension'.

...Going back to the focuser and uneven tension, someone on Birdforum said that the spring was there to prevent any back-lash/free-play in the focus action, something which Dennis hates, and so do I.

Hmm. Seems to me you'd want a spring for that purpose to work symmetrically in both directions? For what it's worth, I've handled around 8 new (pre-FP) Swaros in the last few years, EL 10x32, 10x50, 12x50, SLC 10x56, 15x56, and all their focusers were absolutely A+, smooth, tight, and symmetrical. As were several Leicas. (This was a Leica thread...) I have not tried the SLC 42 which seems to be at issue here, and whose focus mechanism we know was redesigned a few years ago.

dries1 · Oct 9, 2019

I think the issue with the focus was with the first generation ELs - the pre-swarovision EL (not the last two generations) I only have experience with a few SV/ PRE-FP models and one FP (12X50). They focus fine, one can adjust to the difference in focus action on a Leica, Nikon or Zeiss, just no free play in the focus.....just cannot have free play...

Andy W.

denco@comcast.n · Oct 9, 2019

wdc said:
Let us peruse a few recent gems from the relentless torrent of babble that emanates from dencoworld:

Denco, post 103:
"I was just in a Cabella's today and I tried a Swarovski SLC 10x42 and sure enough it was harder to turn in the clockwise direction. I told the sales girl and she said she would tell the Sales Rep from Swarovski. Good luck with that I told her! If you buy an SLC CHECK the focuser! "

Denco, Saturday, post 108:
"...and I won't even go into how many Swarovski's I have had with funky focusers."

Denco, Sunday, post 116:
" Many Swarovski's especially SLC's and even SV's have had funky focusers being sticky or having unequal focus tension. I have sent those into Swarovski and usually they come back about the same."

Denco, Monday, post 131:
I didn't say all Swarovski's had funky focusers just a small percentage of them so I don't think it is inherent in their design.

He's all yours Lee! ;-)

b.

All those statements are true. If you don't like somebodies posts don't read them! I don't read yours.:-O

denco@comcast.n · Oct 9, 2019

james holdsworth said:
The problem with those experiences is the amazingly contradictory nature of them (shown above nicely), often coming full circle multiple times in a few years....not helpful IMO.

James. It is not contradictory if you change your opinion in a few years. Sometimes it is because you have gained new knowledge or your experiences has changed your mind about something. For example, I didn't use to like the Habicht's but in the last year I have learned how to use them to compensate for their idiosyncrasies. If you don't change your opinion in ten years you are stagnant! Haven't you ever change your mind about something with time and experience or with new knowledge?

denco@comcast.n · Oct 9, 2019

tenex said:
Hmm. Seems to me you'd want a spring for that purpose to work symmetrically in both directions? For what it's worth, I've handled around 8 new (pre-FP) Swaros in the last few years, EL 10x32, 10x50, 12x50, SLC 10x56, 15x56, and all their focusers were absolutely A+, smooth, tight, and symmetrical. As were several Leicas. (This was a Leica thread...) I have not tried the SLC 42 which seems to be at issue here, and whose focus mechanism we know was redesigned a few years ago.

I agree with you. The greatest percentage of Swaro's I have had have had good focuser's but again you have to realize I have had a LOT of Swaro's so my sample size is much bigger than most people's and correspondingly I am going to get more funky ones. It is all about statistics. I had statistics in college. The idea of a spring in a focuser tightening up in one direction and then unwinding in the other like a clock just doesn't sound right to me.

Torview · Oct 9, 2019

Alexis Powell said:
You've had a problem with Leica BA/BN/Ultravid? I never have. Nor have I had any problem with Zeiss FL.

--AP

Well, I did have to make adjustments to the diopter on my 2 UV and 1 FL after periods of use, I`v never had to do the same on the 3 sv`s I`v had, I just put it down to the diopter creeping over time.

Troubador · Oct 9, 2019

Torview said:
Well, I did have to make adjustments to the diopter on my 2 UV and 1 FL after periods of use, I`v never had to do the same on the 3 sv`s I`v had, I just put it down to the diopter creeping over time.

Could it have been your eyesight that was changing?

Lee

SteveTS · Oct 10, 2019

dwever said:
Yes, defend someone’s right to have a shifting opinion when they’re assimilating new evidence or reconsidering existing evidence. Shifting reality, not so much, it is inauthentic and diminishes the purpose of this site.

Deploying the site's 'ignore list' is always an option if the conversation becomes too much to bear, at least then the downright boring, the psychedelically vicarious, and the congenitally repetitive will disappear at the touch of a button and you won't miss anything.

Regards, Steve

SteveTS · Oct 10, 2019

Troubador said:
Could it have been your eyesight that was changing?

Lee

Good point, and over time this is inevitable. Many glasses wearers will opt for an annual eye test, myself included.

Age and health are perhaps the most important factors in changing eyesight.

Torview · Oct 10, 2019

Troubador said:
Could it have been your eyesight that was changing?

Lee

No, the diopter scale would slowly migrate from its setting.

NDhunter · Oct 11, 2019

It seems this thread has degraded into a thing about Swaro. focusers and that is unfortunate.

What does seem to be important is optics and ergos. And that is where all of these top optics brands
do differ. You can choose the optics you may prefer among the EL Swarovision, Nikon EDG, Zeiss Victory SF
and the Leica Noctovid.

They are all very good, but as far as ergos, the Zeiss Victory SF wins hands down, with the perfect focuser placement, great balance and all, the rest of them do follow a step behind.

So, there you have it, in my honest opinion.

Jerry

Troubador · Oct 11, 2019

Absolutely right about SF Jerry.

When I first tried out Noctivid I was really disappointed. Not with the optics but with the handling. Sliding my three fingers from middle to pinky around the right-hand barrel my first finger just couldn't reach the focuser. I had to shift my hand up towards the eyepieces. OK, now I could reach the focuser but my grip could have been the kind of grip you might have on any closed-hinge bino and the open-hinge design seemed then pointless.

Of course I could use Noctivid with that grip and the optics are great but I found that such a disappointment. Last year my brother-in-law bought a Noctivid so I have had the chance to pick it up from time to time and it still feels odd to have to shuffle my hands around to find the focuser when just by picking up an SF my first finger is automatically straight onto the focuser.

Lee

chill6x6 · Oct 11, 2019

NDhunter said:
It seems this thread has degraded into a thing about Swaro. focusers and that is unfortunate.

What does seem to be important is optics and ergos. And that is where all of these top optics brands
do differ. You can choose the optics you may prefer among the EL Swarovision, Nikon EDG, Zeiss Victory SF
and the Leica Noctovid.

They are all very good, but as far as ergos, the Zeiss Victory SF wins hands down, with the perfect focuser placement, great balance and all, the rest of them do follow a step behind.

So, there you have it, in my honest opinion.

Jerry

Troubador said:
Absolutely right about SF Jerry.

When I first tried out Noctivid I was really disappointed. Not with the optics but with the handling. Sliding my three fingers from middle to pinky around the right-hand barrel my first finger just couldn't reach the focuser. I had to shift my hand up towards the eyepieces. OK, now I could reach the focuser but my grip could have been the kind of grip you might have on any closed-hinge bino and the open-hinge design seemed then pointless.

Of course I could use Noctivid with that grip and the optics are great but I found that such a disappointment. Last year my brother-in-law bought a Noctivid so I have had the chance to pick it up from time to time and it still feels odd to have to shuffle my hands around to find the focuser when just by picking up an SF my first finger is automatically straight onto the focuser.

Lee

I think it's all a matter of what one is used to and likes/dislikes. I certainly have had no ill effects from using a Noctivid day in day out. After a minute or two using it becomes second nature regardless of what binocular I was using prior.

Troubador · Oct 11, 2019

chill6x6 said:
I think it's all a matter of what one is used to and likes/dislikes. I certainly have had no ill effects from using a Noctivid day in day out. After a minute or two using it becomes second nature regardless of what binocular I was using prior.

With regard to likes and dislikes and what one is used to: of course you are right, and like I said, you can easily get a usable grip on Noctivid.

BUT you think you have had no ill effects from using Noctivid day in day out? Not too sure about that Chuck, seems to me you have more plasticity than you used to have

.

Lee

wdc · Oct 11, 2019

I always feel better after I vomit anyways, so no permanent ill effect issues there for me either with the aforementioned bin. Just get it out of the way, then its smooth sailing!

I must say that when I first picked up the Noctivid it just slid right out of my hands and dropped to the ground. Took me awhile to figure out that sure grip. Then the focuser... wha? I couldn't even find it. Had to pull the bins from my eyes and check the grip. Oh! There it was. Eventually I could do it without checking my hands. Heck yea! I could almost smell that magical contrast oozing out of the focuser..

Now where did that dang bird go?

One more thing! I found that if I use the SF with the flat field, my wife comments on my 2 dimensionality more, so Zeiss and Swaro users take note of that. You've been warned.

Happy Friday, and I hope you all get some birding in over the weekend.

-Bill

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