Previous Gen Alpha "Mystique" (1 Viewer)

jremmons · Mar 22, 2018

Watching old alpha models sell has always been interesting to me. Outdated glass, such as the Trinovid BN, SLC, original EL, etc. always still seem to sell for prices nearing $1000, despite newer, lower tier models (such as the Vortex Viper, Zeiss Conquest, Etc.) having superior optical performance. These models are still competitive and solid options, but why pay $1000 when you can pay half the price for better performance?

I'm guessing it just comes down to brand reputation and general 'awe' of these models?

dries1 · Mar 22, 2018

For me, I look at durability and proven products over time, sure Tract Toric and Zen Ray provide nice views for a low price. I my self grew tired of returning mid priced glass (not necessarily those aforementioned mind you) for repair under warranty. I will always buy a used Nikon (SE lets say), over a new mid priced bin. It is a proven glass. And I do not feel that new models have superior optical performance, perhaps a bit brighter, but not superior. Additionally the build quality of mid priced bins these days IMHO leave a bit to be desired.

A.W.

Alexis Powell · Mar 22, 2018

Build quality/materials, design elegance, easy view.

Still, alpha used prices are amazing considering many alphas sold new for the same or less and incomes haven't kept pace. Bought my Leica 8x32 Ultra Trinovid BA for $710 new. Alphas were called "$1000 bins" back then, and they sold for that or less. I had a hard time convincing myself to buy the original Swarovski EL when it was first released because it sold new for the outrageous price of ~$1200.

--AP

looksharp65 · Mar 22, 2018

They are built to last. Their appearance might not be minty, but on the other hand very little will actually happen with their appearance and probably the mechanics too. And the depreciation rate is much, much slower than with new fancy optics, meaning that if you for some reason wish to resell them, you can count on getting your money back.
That said, I find Swedish used prices laughable but also insulting, when you realise the sellers actually believe the inflated prices correspond to the utility value of the optics.

//L

james holdsworth · Mar 22, 2018

Some of it comes from collectors as well, with zero intention of using them in the field. So, optical performance, apart from condition internally, matters little to the overall value.

I have the 10x56 Night Owls - valued at about $2000 CAD for a minty pair - but the current average $500 mid-tier would run rings around them, optically.

Vespobuteo · Mar 22, 2018

Probably most collectors but also others who appreciate mechanical quality, design/looks and the brand.
Optics are good enough for most people and they might even be sharper than mid-tear bins due to better manufacturing and QC.

chill6x6 · Mar 22, 2018

Most of the older alpha products I have are nowhere near obsolete IMO. I like the styling of the Leica BN. The 10X42 BN is still rated as the #23 binocular out of 85. 139 points is nothing to sneeze at! It's still well made and excellent optically and mechanically. Mine is a 7X42....I won't sell it. The SLCs....I still have my first quality 10X42, a 1997 Swarovski SLC. It has been and still is absolutely perfect functionally. The image is still very nice but of course has been improved upon. My next is a 2008 SLC 7X42 which is absolutely competitive in every way to current binoculars. I'm not really sure how old my non-Lotutec 7X42 FL is....I wouldn't take anything for it. It's just killer!

To me...the older models don't seem to have been just slopped together. Some care and craftsmanship seems to have been in place. Some thought seems to have been put into them as in "is this the best we can do?" instead of "can we get by with this?"

jremmons · Mar 22, 2018

Chuck - I don't mean they are obsolete, just that they haven been surpassed, optically, by newer models.

I guess construction/quality, to me, of the mid tiers such as the Conquest HD, Viper/Razor HD, Genesis XD, Meostar, etc. are just as good as the alphas, even of today.

james holdsworth · Mar 22, 2018

I had that same nostalgia for my old favourites - B&L Elites - but after finding a pair, that's all it is, nostalgia, as the view has long since been surpassed by newer stuff.

denco@comcast.n · Mar 23, 2018

I agree with jremmons and James. I have tried a lot of the older alpha's and I usually don't keep them very long because IMO they don't compete with the newer alpha's optically. I am not a collector and I don't really care about nostalgia. I want the best view I can get in the few binoculars I use and I only have three. I usually end up with the latest alpha's because I find technology is always progressing so usually the newer the better. I like Swarovski's the best because they work the best for me. That is just a personal preference. All their binoculars from smaller to bigger have similar excellent optics and similar features like their eye cup design which I like. As soon as Swarovski announces a new binocular I look at it very closely because I know it is probably going to be good. Swarovski doesn't sit around resting on their laurels. I don't have any hassles with them or QA issues outside of a sticky focuser on the 10x50 SV which is just a common problem with that binocular. They have the best customer service I have experienced. I have their latest models. The new 8x56 SLC HD, new 8x30 CL and the (fairly) new 8x25 CL-P. I find even in the space of a couple years binocular technology is improving so I go for the latest and greatest.

WJC · Mar 23, 2018

[email protected] said:
I agree with jremmons and James. I have tried a lot of the older alpha's and I usually don't keep them very long because IMO they don't compete with the newer alpha's optically. I am not a collector and I don't really care about nostalgia. I want the best view I can get in the few binoculars I use and I only have three. I usually end up with the latest alpha's because I find technology is always progressing so usually the newer the better. As soon as one of the alpha makers announce a new binocular I look at it very close because I know it is probably going to be good. The alpha makers don't sit around and rest on their laurels.

Please note post #16 on the "Alpha Alpha" thread. It doesn't agree. But, I feel it offers some valid reasoning. :cat:

Bill

dries1 · Mar 23, 2018

For some it is the newest, brightest light, sort of like automobiles....for others it is value, personally I still use glass manufactured 10+ years ago with some new ones I have procured. For some the newer outshines the older, so go ahead and find your new bright light, enjoy, until the next one comes along.

A.W.

WJC · Mar 23, 2018

dries1 said:
For some it is the newest, brightest light, sort of like automobiles....for others it is value, personally I still use glass manufactured 10+ years ago with some new ones I have procured. For some the newer outshines the older, so go ahead and find your new bright light, enjoy, until the next one comes along.

A.W.

Hi, Andy:

What was it Aristotle said, "Different strokes for different folks"? :cat:

Bill

NDhunter · Mar 23, 2018

There are some older alpha models, that still perform to a very high level.

One I will mention is the latest version of the Zeiss Dialyt 10x40 BT*P*.

This binocular has very nice handling, better than most on the market today, and its
optics and transmission rate very well overall.

Another binocular and one that has been rated as a reference standard, on "Better View Desired"
is the Nikon Venturer LX 8x42. In 1998 it was introduced and it soon gained a big part of the birding
market.

This binocular is still very special, and if you have the chance to use one, you will know what I mean.
For me, this binocular has the best focuser I have ever used, and a very nice, easy view that is pleasing.

I like the word Mystique in the older alpha binoculars. They have it, and it sometimes takes some time, and
experience to enjoy what they offer.

Jerry

denco@comcast.n · Mar 23, 2018

dries1 said:
For some it is the newest, brightest light, sort of like automobiles....for others it is value, personally I still use glass manufactured 10+ years ago with some new ones I have procured. For some the newer outshines the older, so go ahead and find your new bright light, enjoy, until the next one comes along.

A.W.

I went through that "phase" where I had a bunch of older alpha's and they are a good bargain many times for what you get for the price I just reached a point where I don't want to mess around anymore. Give me a few really good "latest and greatest" binoculars of different sizes and I got all my bases covered. If something new comes down the pipe I am on it like a rat on a cheeto.:king: I bought the new Swarovski CL 8x30 from a German seller to get it fast.

dries1 · Mar 23, 2018

Bill,

How is life, I hope well, and yes, I could have saved some key strokes.

Dennis,

This will go down on the Bird Forum as one of the funniest comments.

"If something new comes down the pipe I am on it like a rat on a cheeto".

A.W.

dries1 · Mar 23, 2018

Jerry,

I have the HG/LX 10X42 and do appreciate the view, I agree the focus is sublime, and the armor looks like new after almost 20 years, a solid glass built to last.

A.W.

WJC · Mar 23, 2018

dries1 said:
Bill,

How is life, I hope well, and yes, I could have saved some key strokes.

Dennis,

This will go down on the Bird Forum as one of the funniest comments.

"If something new comes down the pipe I am on it like a rat on a cheeto".

A.W.

"Life" is fine ... it's the other I want to keep my eye on! :t:

Bill

jremmons · Mar 23, 2018

james holdsworth said:
I had that same nostalgia for my old favourites - B&L Elites - but after finding a pair, that's all it is, nostalgia, as the view has long since been surpassed by newer stuff.

Agreed. I still keep my B&L Elite 10x that I was given in my personal vehicle. They are worn to shreds and optically inferior to even the lowest of the low ED glass (Zen-Ray), but they do have nostalgia.

dalat · Mar 23, 2018

[email protected] said:
I usually end up with the latest alpha's because I find technology is always progressing so usually the newer the better.

Was that before the death of the alpha, or did they rise again?

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