S.cantillans, S.c.cantillans, S.c. inornata, moltini’s (1 Viewer)

Im not sure if this is the right place for this!?

AFAIK, nominate S.cantillans, S.c.cantillans and Moltini’s warbler can all be found in Sardinia. Given its proximity to N.Africa, is inornta out of the question (as Spring overshoots?)

Either way, other than call, are there any id features, gizz etc that can help me separate female types in late August, and possibly very worn males esp. between Moltini’s and the catillans - moult timimg? behaviour? Distribution?

Presumably Moltini’s are no longer conspecific for a very good reason?

Thanks in advance!

Is anyone here familiar with the Subalpine complex? are 1st summer males and females (western) even possible to separate from moltini’s without calls. Can the pink tones of moltini’s be a source of confusion with worn late summer orange tones of westerns etc? Do moltini's have the white tipped primary feature of male westerns (are these even visible unless in the hand!). Apologies for what are probably mundane questions but I would appreciate some expert input on the rationale of the taxonomy before being presented with an ID nightmare in Sardinia at the end of August! Thanks.

Here are two previous threads on these, there might be something relevant in there (I have not checked)
https://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=290508
https://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=146131

Niels

Moltoni's (note spelling ) has a very different call.
Other than that i can't help sorry.

James

James Lowther said:

Moltoni's (note spelling ) has a very different call

James

Click to expand...

I must stop posting so late at night!

The article by Brian small was probably the most helpful (well in theory). (thank you Niels)The diagnostic tail feature of subalpina and inornata separating them from cantillans looks great on paper and probably in the hand but doubt its that visible on less than sharp flight photos. All the diagnostic treatment of this complex seems to be based on fresh spring adult males not worn/post b.moult/female/1cy individuals (the latter likely unidentifiable even to sp!) in late August where strong contrasting light and faded plumage could greatly influence colour tones (as would the time of day) Even some calls are simillar with the other plethora of Sylvias likely to be found on Sardinia (and wrens!) at least I won’t have to contend with Barred and Lesser wts ...

In short, my panic only grows :-O