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3 New 8x30 Reviews by Holger Merlitz (2 Viewers)

Thanks Canip, Gijs and John,

I think John's excellent research has put my questions and wrong guesses about early Swarovski coatings to rest and opened up a new mystery for me. I can understand the heavily yellow biased Transmax not being universally accepted, but why wasn't the the 3-layer Iralin multicoating more widely adopted? From the diagram it appears to have been the equal of modern broadband multicoatings way back in 1965.

Henry
 
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If one of our German speaking posters could provide a clear translation I’d be grateful
I transcribed the text, and put it through Google Translate but due to the technical language used the results were unsatisfactory
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John

Happy to do that, but it is not clear to me which part you mean - just kindly provide the part of the text that you would like translated.

Pinac
 
TRANSLATION OF 1955 TEXT

Pinac

I ran the text through Google Translate again and it came out fine! - see the attached copy
(I previously GT'd the text way back in November 2015, and time seems to have made all the difference)

The 'Vergro Berungen' is the only remaining oddity

John
 

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I followed up on Gijs’ comment in post #11, regarding his PowerPoint presentation about Swarovski Optik
It provides some relevant transmission graphs, and I’ve attached 4

The original graphs - and a whole lot more - can be found in ‘History and quality development of Swarovski Optik 1935-present time’
The presentation comprises 100 slides, is 12 MB in size and is located at:
https://www.houseofoutdoor.com/verrekijkers/verrekijkers-testen-en-vergelijken/ (see about 2/3 of the way down the page)


1) Uncoated vs DV coated Traditional binoculars
A) 6x30 and 8x30N

Both models use the same objectives and prisms - only the focal lengths of the eyepieces differ, the 8x30N’s is shorter, with a wider Angular FOV and less eye relief
So in terms of glass and transmission, it’s a like-to-like comparison

The improvement in the low frequency DV transmission between 1958 and 1963, is notable
And a general level of 80% transmission, would not be too shabby for many multicoated binoculars up to the year 2000 or so
But the cost for the transmission performance, was the strong yellow colour cast to the image


[ EDIT: please read SWAROTOP for Swarobright below (Swarobright is the dielectric roof prism coating), see post #28. Thanks Henry, I got my Swaro-talk confused! ]

2) Swarobright coated SL binoculars
B) SL 10x40W (made from 1982 to 1992)
C) SL 7x42 (from 1980 to 1992)
D) SL 8x56B (from 1984 to 1998)

Optically, the SL uses the same glass as the Traditional design in a new housing e.g. the respective 7x42’s and 10x40’s each have the same AFOV and eye relief specifications,
but the close focus ranges differ in the SL due to mechanical constraints in the design
(despite appearances, the SL uses an external focus mechanism with the eyepiece assembly moving inside an outer housing)
The SL has the advantage of 2 less air-to-glass surfaces as the prisms are cemented

Gijs’ graphs show a wide range of performance, so I’ve sorted them into the order which presumedly reflects the progression in Swarotop coatings over time

Initial transmission values of the multicoated Swarobright SL’s were disappointing, when compared to those of the dual coated DV Traditionals:
- the SL 10x40’s performance is pathetic - basically just 10 to 15% better then the uncoated 6x30 Traditional!
- and the SL 7x42’s performance while better is not impressive - it tapers off at both ends of the spectrum, and is especially poor up to 520 nm

In contrast, what would be a later production SL 8x56, shows superiority to what was possible with DV coated optics:
- it has around 90% transmission for much of the range
- and significantly, this came with a much more neutral coloured image

The takeaway seems to be that it took Swarovski some time to combine better colour fidelity with improved transmission in it’s Swarobright coatings
Swarovski would have persisted, as it would have been obvious that 3 coatings would eventually provide performance well beyond that of 2



SOME CONCLUSIONS
Firstly, as all of the above are Porro prism designs, we’re avoiding the complications associated with the additional coatings needed on roof prism designs
And the Traditional and the SL models feature identical optics (with the SL having the minor advantage of 2 less air-to-glass surfaces)
So the points below are limited to:
- Traditional models (which did not have Swarobright coating until 1990/1991)
- and SL models, which were manufactured from 1980 to 1998 (and had Swarobright coating from 1982 at the latest)


By 1963, DV coating was capable of slightly over 80% transmission across most of the visible spectrum - though with the limitation of a strong yellow cast to the image
The yellow cast would be a deal breaker for some uses (e.g. birding) but inconsequential, or even beneficial, for other uses (e.g. hunting in low light/low contrast situations)
All things considered, the transmission performance was significant, compared to the single coated alternatives of the time

In the 1980’s, the first implementations of Swarobright multicoating may have provided a more neutral image but there were difficulties in achieving the transmission levels of the mature form of DV coating

By 1998 at the latest (with the end of the SL line), Swarobright exceeded DV capability, with around 90% transmission combined with a much improved (though not colour neutral) image

Prior to 2009, the use of Swarobright on Traditional models had been further significantly refined [see graph E), it is the 7x42 unit mentioned in posts #3 and #10]
While the transmission level was decreased to 86%, the transmission curve was extraordinarily flat
Clearly Swarovski chose to trade off a slight degree in maximum transmission to achieve a much more neutral coloured image (though still with a very slight tint)

And from 2009, Traditional binoculars have 94 to 96% transmission, again with a very flat curve, and the ‘paper white’ image now associated with them (e.g. see the link in post #10 above)


John

p.s. I'm getting more detailed information organised about the use of Swarotop on the Traditional line of binoculars. Ideally I'll post it tomorrow.
 

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John, post 26,
How nice to see my work back on the screen. Obviously you work very hard finding all these data, very good job and informative. (I hope you do get some sleep in between).
Gijs van Ginkel
 
Hi Robert,

Thanks for the information. There is one error that's easily corrected. Everywhere you have used the term Swarobright should read Swarotop. Swarobright is a dielectric mirror coating, not an AR coating. Possibly you've already seen the item below.

I'm not sure I would use Gijs data for the 10x42 and 7x42 to reach broad conclusions about typical light transmission for the old SLs. For me such unaccountably poor results raise a red flag about the particular specimens tested. Perhaps they were compromised in some way, possibly from deteriorated cement or a buildup of film on internal surfaces, things that could affect the test results of many old binoculars. I bought four pairs of SLs from the mid 80s to the early 90s, including a 10x40 and 7x42. Then as now I was obsessively careful about evaluating perceived image brightness and color accuracy. I found them to be somewhat yellow biased but otherwise competitive with the highest transmission binoculars available then.

Henry
 

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Thank you John for your detailed work.

The Minolta achromatic or 2 layer coating was apparently available in 1958 on the Minolta Leica thread cameras.
I have one of these and will try to look at the lenses.

I had a Minolta Super A rangefinder interchangeable lens camera with a 50mm f/1.8 Super Rokkor I think, and when I first used it I could not believe the quality of the lens. The photos were just beautiful. I could not believe that such an old camera and lens could produce such photos.This camera maybe was first made in 1957, but I am not sure if my lens had single or double layer coatings.

I thought that Dennis Taylor first noticed natural lens blooming in 1896, but it seems Lord Rayleigh noticed this in 1886/1890.
In the early 1900s Taylor Taylor Hobson were chemically coating lenses, but this was not as effective as later coating techniques.

The Kodak Ektra lenses from 1941 seem to be the first commercially available coated camera lenses, although the military Aero Ektars predate this.

I wonder if the Taylor Taylor Hobson patent for 3 layer coatings with the tunable central layer prevented Balzers from some types of 3 layer coatings. Maybe TTH licenced their system.
Leica had to put licenced from TTH on their Xenon lenses that TTH noticed had been directly copied from their lens.
It is nice to note that Leica acknowledged this.
I think that Zeiss decided to design their own wide angle lens so as not to infringe the Russar Russian lens design.

Unfortunately it doesn't work the other way as Russia and China just copy as they wish without any regard to patents, particularly China.
 
Henry, post 28,
Your remarks about the older binoculars are certainly valid. We clean them as well as possible, check the inside by eye and if there is any sign of pollution or whatever, we do not use the binoculars for our measurements. Of course one could have sent them all to the original producers, but that is too expensive generally and testing binoculars is a weard side track of biophysics research that does not yield funding from whatever company, so it is, so to speak "poor mens"work only driven by enthusiasm and done as a service to the general public.
The results of the Swarovski binoculars were presented in the presence of the head of the Swarovski quality management and we did not see him steaming with anger leaving the conference room...
Gijs van Ginkel
 
What sticks out for me is the 10x42 EL barely nudging 80% transmission. This must be the pre SV series of course but still much lower than I would expect.
 
Binastro
Dual/ DV coating has been used by Swarovski on it’s binoculars since 1948
Production commenced in April with the 6x30 model and numbering starting at 20k
See the table ‘Trad Leatherette Numbering’ here: https://www.birdforum.net/showpost.php?p=3777457&postcount=7
And by my observations:
- DV coating was in use by #20,410 (earlier units were uncoated)
- and the DV marking was in use by #21,075
7x42 production started later in the year at 10k, and DV coating was being used by #10,100

1948 was as soon as Swarovski could recommence binocular production, until then the production of optical devices had been forbidden by the Occupying Powers
(Swarovski had already recommenced spectacle lens production in 1945)
The Optics Balzers website says that the ‘market introduction’ of Transmax was in 1955, see: https://www.opticsbalzers.com/en/company/about-us/history.html
but as there was commercial use by mid-1948, the process must have been fully developed some time before then (OB was founded in 1946)


James
Yes, the last graph shows the pre-SV version
I’ve attached the English language version of the document that it’s from (it’s the one referred to in post #10, that is not now on the website)
It’s a comprehensive test of x42 binoculars and contains a lot of comparative detail
It includes transmission data for both EL and EL SV 8.5x42 and 10x42 models
And of course the full list of Gijs’ tests can be found here: https://www.houseofoutdoor.com/verrekijkers/verrekijkers-testen-en-vergelijken/


John
 

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From the linked reviews:

"Chromatic aberration (CA): I see a slight advantage for the Monarch HG here. The color fringes along edges of high contrast appear to be of lower intensity when compared to the CL Companion. None of the contenders is reaching performance values of the market leaders (with respect to CA-control), such as the Kowa 8x33 Genesis or the Zeiss 8x32 Victory FL."

I am glad to see someone else is seeing what I am seeing (CA) in the new CL, see above, see! Now nobody is making a stink about it here on the forum, but if it was Leica it would be different and y'all would be all over it.

CG
 
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James, Ok you must have a Big Blue shield in the living room, eh?

Andy W.



Not sure what you are getting at - if you know my posting history you will find numerous reviews critical of Zeiss models when deserved - some very critical, just posted one yesterday, lol. The 80% figure of the EL suggests that many / most roofs of that era had similar transmission - Elites, Zeiss Dialyts, Trinnies etc and seems on the low side for phase corrected roofs.

Ok?
 
Is there a connection between Optolyth Ceralin coatings and Balzers Iralin coatings?

Were Optolyth optics in fact coated by Balzers?

I think that Balzers coated other binoculars besides Swarovski, and also other kinds of optics.

Just after WW2 Britain had a government sponsored optical company producing advanced coatings, but not on a commercial basis. About 1946.
It was linked to the British optical companies also.
 
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Hello All,
A number of things have been taking up my time, so it’s taking much longer than I anticipated to get things together
and post about the use of Swarotop on Traditional binoculars (see the postscript to post #26)
I am about 3/4’s done, so I should post soon. When I do it will be on a new thread, so as to make it easier to search for in the future


Binastro,
I had previously wondered if there was a link between Ceralin and the equally intense (though different colour reflecting) DV coating - and hence to Optics Balzers
However, I’ve seen no indication that Ceralin was an Optics Balzers’ technology
- when I previously looked at Optolyth binoculars, I couldn’t find any technical information about either Ceralin or the later broadband Ceralin Plus
- Ceralin’s not mentioned on the OB website
- and I couldn’t find a mention in Pulker’s book (see post #18)

According to the Optolyth website, they started production under the Optolyth brand in 1965, so ‘Ceralin’ probably dates from around then
see: http://www.optolyth.de/english/about-optolyth/index.html
- they do have an e-mail address, which may be worth a query


John
 
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'Vergro Berungen' , concerning post #24

TRANSLATION OF 1955 TEXT

Pinac

…………..
The 'Vergro Berungen' is the only remaining oddity

John

I have only just come across this thread, and I have not read all the details. So maybe this "oddity" has long been resolved? The word is actually Vergrösserungen (enlargements), with an Umlaut on the o and a double-s. But there is another oddity in German, namely that Germany (and Austria for historic reasons) keep sticking to a special letter for a double-s. It looks about like a Greek Beta. Fortunately, Switzerland uses a regular double-s (ss) that is consequently no problem for translations. We have never learned the use of the special letter in our (Swiss) schools. There are actually special occasions where a regular double-s is also used in Germany/Austria. Computer programs generally differentiate between German German and Swiss German. As a consequence, my spell checker constantly underlines every word I write with ss. I guess I should change the programming ;).
 
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