Hybrid Gull??? (1 Viewer)

dan pointon · Feb 4, 2006

Bit of a gull puzzler for everyone, with that thread raging elsewhere on the forum about gull watching being for experts, I think, looking at this i'd be inclined to say yes, lets see if any of them can dechiper anything from this:

Today me and Reader called in at Poolsbrook CP on our way back from Sheffield, to see what gulls were about. We arrived and began to scan the gull flock, and then I noticed a very strange bird at the back of the group (pics below). To give an idea of size, probably not obvious from the pictures, it was almost the same size as the surrounding Herrings in body, yet the bill was quite large, not to mention almost entirely pink, and the head was sqaurish. The mantle was very dark where marked, and the head and nape was a uniform grey buff.

I have posted two of the better shots of the gull, and another for size comparison with the other gulls, but I also have some more shots of it in various other poses, if anyone wants to see any other features, just ask and I can post some other pics.

Hope someone can figure this out, because i'm pretty much stumped besides a hybrid GBB x Herring.

So JanJ and Lou, any ideas?

Cheers

Dimitris · Feb 4, 2006

Hi Dan,

That's a werad looking freak... er... Gull.

I'll be bold and vote for a young female GBBG on the small side (ie minimum size).
Plumage pattern looks ok to me for that species, Tertials are ok as are median and greater coverts and the rest of the wing. As for the pale bill well Gulls are weard, I've comme across it aswell at this age (remember my last querry regarding Gulls?)

As for shape (I can'tmake much jizz out of this) the head looks ok for GBBG alouth kinda of 'smoothed out', 'less menacing'. Bill also looks ok ,again smoothed out though.

I wait for Lou and JanJ so that they can shoot me down

,

Dimitris :scribe: :smoke:

EDIT:Added info

Timberdoodler · Feb 4, 2006

My initial guess is an immature Glaucous Gull.

I'm not familiar with the European wintering range however, but hopefully this helps.

Timberdoodler · Feb 4, 2006

Dimitris said:
Hi Dan,

I'll be bold and vote for a young female GBBG on the small side (ie minimum size).
Plumage pattern looks ok to me for that species, Tertials are ok as are median and greater coverts and the rest of the wing.

I wait for Lou and JanJ so that they can shoot me down

Don't immature GBBG have dark bills though?

UPDATE: Glaucous Gulls are indeed circumpolar, so it is quite possible.

dan pointon · Feb 4, 2006

Hi Timberdoodler,

A 1st winter Glaucous Gull would show pale primaries, as much as the bill does fit for Glauc, nothing else does!!

Dimitris · Feb 4, 2006

Timberdoodler said:
Don't immature GBBG have dark bills though?

UPDATE: Glaucous Gulls are indeed circumpolar, so it is quite possible.

Hi 'Timberdoodler', Welcome to the forum.

Well normarly all large white headed Gulls have dark bills at this age. However exceptions occur.

(and of course Glaucous and Iceland have pale bills at this age)

Alouth in general the shape of this birds bears some reseblence to Glaucous , this bird can't be one because it dosen't have pale primaries (Pure Glaucous always have pale primaries) and in general it's too dark to be one.

Here's a Glaucous of about the same age as the bird in question:

http://images.google.com.gr/imgres?...ev=/images?q=Glaucous+Gull&svnum=10&hl=el&lr=

Cheers,

Dimitris

Timberdoodler · Feb 4, 2006

Thanks for the warm welcome, as well as pointing that out Dimitris.

The variability factor makes positively identifying immature gulls a challenge, THAT is for sure!

Dimitris · Feb 4, 2006

Here's a bird that shows a similar (shape wise) bill to the bird in question:

http://images.google.com.gr/imgres?...+Backed+Gull&start=40&svnum=10&hl=el&lr=&sa=N

It's still heavier though then the bird in question....

And here's a young bird with a pale bill:

http://images.google.com.gr/imgres?...+Backed+Gull&start=60&svnum=10&hl=el&lr=&sa=N

Edit: added link

Dimitris · Feb 4, 2006

This one should be of interest it's supposed to be a Herring * GBBG

http://images.google.com.gr/imgres?...Backed+Gull&start=160&svnum=10&hl=el&lr=&sa=N

dan pointon · Feb 4, 2006

Hi Dimi,

I too came across a few of these links through doing a Google search, unfortunately very few seem to actually relate to 1st winter birds, its mostly adults. The last link you posted does indeed show that a Herring x GBB hybrid would be Herring Gull sized, and another shows that GBB gulls do indeed show pink bills, also, as this bird is of roughly the same age as the bird in question, it shows that the above bird is not a GBB, as it doesn't show the pale head.

Very puzzling!! Come on people, take some of the work load off Dimi!!!

Reader · Feb 4, 2006

dwayne950 said:
So JanJ and Lou, any ideas?

Cheers

I will add some photos of my own to help aid ID.

John

Timberdoodler · Feb 4, 2006

I never realized how much hybridization occurs in gulls.

This is a very puzzling challenge!

JANJ · Feb 4, 2006

This one indeed looks like a GBBG, with an abnormal bill colour. It´s a 1st winter (pointed primaries, and typical greater covert pattern, pale looking impression with narrow dark barring, compared to Herring). Head shape, small eye (in middle of head) and rather heavy bill, which in this one almost lack a pronounced gonys and GBBG primary projection, that is to say a bit shorther than Herring. The pale bill would of course be very unusual, I have not seen more than one such gull with a bill similar to this, a juvenile Herring Gull a few years back, the difference was that the bill had more dark markings, like this LBBG: http://www.digimages.info/goebru/larsp031010_1w.jpg)
So I agree with Dimitris, GBBG.

JanJ

Dimitris · Feb 4, 2006

Thamx for that JanJ I can sleep easily now

.

JANJ · Feb 4, 2006

Johns images shows even more the contrasting blackish/white plumage of GBBG, just put your finger over the bill, and you have GBBG. Good and instructive images!

http://cyberbirding.uib.no/gull/mar1vd.php

JanJ

Reader · Feb 4, 2006

Thanks guys

I must admit that there was a birder that joined us just before we left that thought it was a GBBG also. The trouble was the bird had gone by then and he had contact lenses on so he couldn't look at the camera display well enough to see the images we had taken. He commented on seeing a bird similar to our description earlier that day and ID'd it as that.

John

dan pointon · Feb 4, 2006

Good to clear it up, at times in the field it didn't look big enough for a GBBG, but i guess that was just because of the distances it was at compared to other gulls. John -wasn't that bloke saying it was a 2nd winter Herring??

Thanks for sorting it out!

Woodchatshrike · Feb 4, 2006

What do young kelp gulls look like? Only joking. What a fasinating bird. I'm with the Geeb crowd.

Reader · Feb 4, 2006

dwayne950 said:
Good to clear it up, at times in the field it didn't look big enough for a GBBG, but i guess that was just because of the distances it was at compared to other gulls. John -wasn't that bloke saying it was a 2nd winter Herring??

Thanks for sorting it out!

At first he did but when you explained a bit more detail he went for GBBG.

JANJ · Feb 5, 2006

Have a look at this one!

http://www.netfugl.dk/pictures.php?id=showpicture&picture_id=9507

JanJ

Hybrid Gull??? (1 Viewer)

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