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Subalpine Warbler species (1 Viewer)

wolfbirder

Well-known member
Anyone got any views which?

Looks like Western to me - its a 1stW in Yorkshire on 1/11/08, courtesy of the Buckton Birder.
 

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It seems we now have up to 7 (sub)species of what was formerly plain old Subalpine Warbler - all these splits are giving me a headache. Sorry I can't help! I can just tell Moltoni's and cantillans apart from their call.
 

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Without hearing it, I think it is impossible separate Western and Moltoni’s for any bird except for adult males. I’d say it’s definitely not an Eastern, it’s probably a Western but it certainly could be a Moltoni’s.

I’ve had both Western and Moltoni’s in the garden this spring (adult males in each case) but have had to leave anything but adult males as unidentified Subalpine Warblers species without hearing the call.
 
It seems we now have up to 7 (sub)species of what was formerly plain old Subalpine Warbler - all these splits are giving me a headache. Sorry I can't help! I can just tell Moltoni's and cantillans apart from their call.

in the medium term it might increase to a maximum of 6 subspecies i think

N African WESTERN
Iberian (plus South France and North Italy) WESTERN
mainland Italian MOLTONI'S
island MOLTONI'S
South Italian EASTERN
Balkans EASTERN

but the most recent arrangement only recognises 4 (N African and Iberian lumped as a single taxon, the two Moltoni's likewise)

cheers,
James
 
in the medium term it might increase to a maximum of 6 subspecies i think

N African WESTERN
Iberian (plus South France and North Italy) WESTERN
mainland Italian MOLTONI'S
island MOLTONI'S
South Italian EASTERN
Balkans EASTERN

but the most recent arrangement only recognises 4 (N African and Iberian lumped as a single taxon, the two Moltoni's likewise)

cheers,
James

Here in central Italy it's all cantillans (western?). We used to regularly hear/see a Moltoni's a 40 minute drive north from here, but it wasn't there last year and this year we haven't been able to go for obvious reasons.
 
Here in central Italy it's all cantillans (western?). We used to regularly hear/see a Moltoni's a 40 minute drive north from here, but it wasn't there last year and this year we haven't been able to go for obvious reasons.

cantillans is Eastern.

you should get some Western (iberiae) in the very far north-west of Italy (e.g. Piedmont)

so including Sardinia, in Italy you have 4 different types belonging to all 3 species! And I guess you also get albostriata subspecies from the Balkans on migration

you are very lucky ;)

James
 
Without hearing it, I think it is impossible separate Western and Moltoni’s for any bird except for adult males. I’d say it’s definitely not an Eastern, it’s probably a Western but it certainly could be a Moltoni’s.

I’ve had both Western and Moltoni’s in the garden this spring (adult males in each case) but have had to leave anything but adult males as unidentified Subalpine Warblers species without hearing the call.

May I ask how you feel it is definitely not Eastern?

I admit, at first look at the photo, my thought was that it might be Western, but it has a whitish belly so might well be eastern. Indeed, a birder at the time was adamant it was calling like an Eastern bird. I wish I had paid more attention to that at the time.
 
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