blurring (1 Viewer)

I am rapidly understanding as a newbie photographer that if I am taking a shot from a distance (20-50 meters)......and am at the 300-400mm zoom I need to use a tri pod or mono-pod. Right?

If I take it from a distance at 200mm or less I still almost need one for it is hard to use the AF button to pinpoint on the bird from a distance too...So essentially, a tripod or monopod is essential from any bird at a distance and with any zoom? Right...

Will a monopod do?

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your question, but I don't know why subject distance--unless so great that atmospheric conditions enter into the equation--should have anything to do with sharpness. In general, whether a tripod is required or not depends on shutter speed. With care, most people can get sharp results handholding prosumer type DSLRs at shutter speeds (hundredths of seconds) roughly equivalent to the focal length (in millemeters). Thus, for example, in the case of a (non-imaged stabilized) zoom at 300mm, the shutter speed should be no slower than 1/300", at 400mm, no slower than 1/400", & so on.

I don't know if this is the source of your problem or not What shutter speeds have you been using for the blurred photos?

Not sure

Well, I am not too sure....I started looking at my photos and I had the camera setting on AV. Aperture was set at 8.0 and it was fairly sunny day so the ISO was at 100 or 200 depending. The range I used was between 200mm and 400mm and looking at the shutter I could see that in all cases the automatic setting was above the zoom distance.

But I did not use any mono pod or tri pod and I just shot trying to hold it steady. .. See thumbnail below.
TV = 400 Aperture = 8.0 ISO =100 Focal Length = 400

lmans66 said:

Well, I am not too sure....I started looking at my photos and I had the camera setting on AV. Aperture was set at 8.0 and it was fairly sunny day so the ISO was at 100 or 200 depending. The range I used was between 200mm and 400mm and looking at the shutter I could see that in all cases the automatic setting was above the zoom distance.

But I did not use any mono pod or tri pod and I just shot trying to hold it steady. .. See thumbnail below.
TV = 400 Aperture = 8.0 ISO =100 Focal Length = 400

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In view of what you've just said, I guess my suggestion would be to do some experimentation. First, rig up a target of some sort--anything 3-dimensional displaying lots of detail will do--& then with the camera set to manual take a series of photographs, varying focal length, aperture, ISO & shutter speed. Do this handheld & then repeat with the camera on a tripod (or sitting on a table or some other firm support if you don't have a tripod). Since it's much easier to evaluate a large image than a small one, keep the camera-to-subject distance fairly short, so that the target at maximum zoom more or less fills the field. Then compare the results at 100% enlargement in a photo-editing program to determine what combination of factors gives you the best results. Quick & dirty, I know, but I think it should do the job, or at least get you part way to a solution.

good suggestions

fugl said:

In view of what you've just said, I guess my suggestion would be to do some experimentation. First, rig up a target of some sort--anything 3-dimensional displaying lots of detail will do--& then with the camera set to manual take a series of photographs, varying focal length, aperture, ISO & shutter speed. Do this handheld & then repeat with the camera on a tripod (or sitting on a table or some other firm support if you don't have a tripod). Since it's much easier to evaluate a large image than a small one, keep the camera-to-subject distance fairly short, so that the target at maximum zoom more or less fills the field. Then compare the results at 100% enlargement in a photo-editing program to determine what combination of factors gives you the best results. Quick & dirty, I know, but I think it should do the job, or at least get you part way to a solution.

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Thanks...excellent suggestions. Easy and yet I never thought of that, lmans

As has already been stated, hand holding a long lens (esp one without IS) is all about getting a high shutter speed. At 400mm and depending on your long lens technique, you should be looking at a min of 1/600 sec but faster still if you can. I rarely shoot below ISO 400 even if the shutter speed goes up to 1/2000 sec or even faster.
Just stick the Camera in AV mode and open the lens right-up (or the fastest you lens will allow to get decent shots) set ISO 400 and shoot away - if the shutter speed falls below 1/600 then up the ISO to suit.
Using a tri/monopod will always help but it is not always convenient in the field.

ah

Ah,....so f8 isn't the thing to do, now I see. I think f5 or 5.6 would work better for it would allow more light. I was shooting also with ISO of 100 but I should up that to 400. Doing those two things will allow the shutter speed to increase beyond just the min that I was shooting with, thus not blurring.....

Sounds simple....and really it is but to a novice photographer, it still is something to reckon with. Appreciate your advice...will try it today as long the rain subsides just a bit! lmans

lmans66 said:

Ah,....so f8 isn't the thing to do, now I see. I think f5 or 5.6 would work better for it would allow more light. I was shooting also with ISO of 100 but I should up that to 400. Doing those two things will allow the shutter speed to increase beyond just the min that I was shooting with, thus not blurring.....

Sounds simple....and really it is but to a novice photographer, it still is something to reckon with. Appreciate your advice...will try it today as long the rain subsides just a bit! lmans

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I'm unfamiliar with your camera and lens (Canon 450 with the Tokina zoom) & that's why I suggested experimentation to determine the best settings. Zoom lenses are sometimes not at their best at full extension, and the same applies to aperture--sometimes image quality is just fine with the lens wide-open, sometimes it's not. Ditto for ISO: some cameras handle high ISOs (say 400 & above) well, others don't.

I take almost all my bird photos with a Nikon D70 & a 300mm f4 ED-IF Nikon prime & with this equipment I can shoot at f4 with no loss of quality--as far as I can tell the lens is as sharp wide-open as stopped down--and can get away with a 400 ISO setting (though 200 would be better). For shooting mode, I almost always use aperture preferred (rarely manual), letting shutter speed take care of itself (at 400 ISO & f4 it seldom falls below 1/1000th or so except when the light is very poor)

Here are examples of bird photos I've taken with this equipment over the last few years. Practically everything's hand-held at 400 ISO and many shots are heavily cropped (unfortunately, 300mm doesn't give that much reach)--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/7117259@N05/

Great shots Fugl...real cool......I love the display of them....

On a zoom....I have heard the Canon 70-300 etc gets soft around 200mm and I suspect on my Tokina 80-400 the same applies with softing beginning around 300 or so. Right? or there abouts? So the extra 100mm is to stretch it but not do so perfectly...

I hear you on the aperture open all way too....a stop below or perhaps two on high zoom but probably pretty much open all the way anywhere 200mm or below?

lmans66 said:

Great shots Fugl...real cool......I love the display of them....

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Thanks.

lmans66 said:

On a zoom....I have heard the Canon 70-300 etc gets soft around 200mm and I suspect on my Tokina 80-400 the same applies with softing beginning around 300 or so. Right? or there abouts? So the extra 100mm is to stretch it but not do so perfectly...

I hear you on the aperture open all way too....a stop below or perhaps two on high zoom but probably pretty much open all the way anywhere 200mm or below?

Click to expand...

Well, all that sounds reasonable but I don't think there are any hard and fast rules. That's why you need to to determine the strengths & weaknesses of your equipment empirically, by systematic experiment.