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ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Aging eyes (1 Viewer)

...I have to say I never perceive a bino that is strong in the red, or strong in the blue or strong in the yellow-green as having a view that is tinted all the way across, has a 'colour-cast', with those colours. For example snow and sands that look pure white to my naked eyes look the same through Leicas, Zeisses or Swaros. But what is real to me might not be real to another observer...

I can almost say the same for today's premium quality, nearly neutral color rendering bins, but definitely not some older models. For example, pre-swarobright Swarovski models have a distinctly yellowish color when first brought to the eyes, and my B&L Elite (waterproof) paint everything with an orange wash. By contrast, my old Zeiss 7x42 BGATP is close enough to neutral that I adjust my eye/brain white balance so quickly that I don't notice deviations without looking for them.

--AP
 
Four bins I recently bought, and they all have a different cast, though subtle, and it starts with the Bushnell Legend M, which seem to me the most neutral of any I've looked through. Then there is the Tract Toric, that has a hint of warmness to the color (reds?), but pretty neutral IMO, though not like the Legends.

Then there is the Cabela's Euro Instinct (Meopta B1) that are pretty neutral, but a little warmer than the Legends too-probably very similar to the Torics.

And then there is the Vanguard ED, that just seems a bit green-enhancing, though not notable if not comparing to other less tinted bins.

All the above are pretty equal in performance to my eyes, though the Torics seem to have the edge in resolution and contrast in certain lighting. The others are very similar, and hard to place one above the other. Now, the Nikon EII 8x32 and 10x35 seem to be delivering a little sharper image right off, with little color bias to my eyes.

But that of course, is what my eyes see, and under my conditons here-which vary too, depending on the light, and no doubt, me.
 
Here's a link to a technique I've mentioned many times for using binoculars to measure your pupil dilation in any light from almost total darkness to bright sunlight.

https://www.birdforum.net/showpost.php?p=3439936&postcount=6

In sunlight I use a small shiny glass ball to make an artificial star from the glitter point of the sun. For dark daylight conditions or complete darkness at night or in a darkened room I use the pinhole in aluminum foil stretched over a flashlight lens. A real star can be used at night. Pick a bright one (Sirius is good now in the northern hemisphere now) and set the binocular focus to a close distance that produces a large defocused image of the star.

Henry
 
Four bins I recently bought, and they all have a different cast, though subtle, and it starts with the Bushnell Legend M, which seem to me the most neutral of any I've looked through. Then there is the Tract Toric, that has a hint of warmness to the color (reds?), but pretty neutral IMO, though not like the Legends.

Then there is the Cabela's Euro Instinct (Meopta B1) that are pretty neutral, but a little warmer than the Legends too-probably very similar to the Torics.

And then there is the Vanguard ED, that just seems a bit green-enhancing, though not notable if not comparing to other less tinted bins.

All the above are pretty equal in performance to my eyes, though the Torics seem to have the edge in resolution and contrast in certain lighting. The others are very similar, and hard to place one above the other. Now, the Nikon EII 8x32 and 10x35 seem to be delivering a little sharper image right off, with little color bias to my eyes.

But that of course, is what my eyes see, and under my conditons here-which vary too, depending on the light, and no doubt, me.

Barry
Would you please clarify one point. You begin your post by mentioning colour cast and the word cast would imply that all of the colours of the bino concerned have a hint of the colour of the cast.
Later on when describing the Vanguard you use the term 'green enhancing' which could be interpreted as meaning that the greens are particularly vibrant but needn't mean that all colours are greenish.
So when you are discussing the warmth of a bino does that mean great reds or all colours are reddish? And the same with 'green enhanced', is that vibrant greens or is everything greenish?

Lee
 
Barry
Would you please clarify one point. You begin your post by mentioning colour cast and the word cast would imply that all of the colours of the bino concerned have a hint of the colour of the cast.
Later on when describing the Vanguard you use the term 'green enhancing' which could be interpreted as meaning that the greens are particularly vibrant but needn't mean that all colours are greenish.
So when you are discussing the warmth of a bino does that mean great reds or all colours are reddish? And the same with 'green enhanced', is that vibrant greens or is everything greenish?

Lee

Well, I don't think I can adequately answer your questions Lee, other than to say that I just used cast as a way of saying that they aren't totally neutral, or we would see the world just as it looks to our eyes (perception too). What colors are affected by various cast (or bias), and what colors aren't, I can't say either, other than I would imagine some would be and some not. What I noted about the Vanguards enhancing the greens, which just seems easy to see for me. Sometimes it may seem to be a greenish or maybe yellowish cast in certain lighting conditions overall, like in a snowstorm, or lower light, rainy and overcast. Though it is subtle in most other lighting, and least in bright sun. The others just hinted at certain enhancements to the view at other times. So no, not all green, (or red or blue), in all the colors to the naked eye in general.

I think it would take scientists to argue the fine points, and I surely am not, but I found this article you may like where they discuss a lot of this here:

http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/2041669517739635

They also talk about perceptions, which is another point that David brought up-thanks David for that link too. Interesting subject, but my head isn't quite there!
 
Sorry Lee, I don't think tht makes any sense. It just means there is an unnatural spectral bias. All binoculars have it, even if it isn't apparent to all users.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colour_cast

David

This how I interpret the word 'cast'. Probably I picked up this interpretation years ago in relation to photographic film.

Here is Wikipedia's definition: 'A colour cast is a tint of a particular colour, usually unwanted, which affects the whole, or portion, of a photographic image evenly'.

This how I have understood colour cast and being aware that the OP might mean something different I was asking him how he intended the words to be meant.

Lee
 
This how I interpret the word 'cast'. Probably I picked up this interpretation years ago in relation to photographic film.

Here is Wikipedia's definition: 'A colour cast is a tint of a particular colour, usually unwanted, which affects the whole, or portion, of a photographic image evenly'.

This how I have understood colour cast and being aware that the OP might mean something different I was asking him how he intended the words to be meant.

Lee

Lee:

Your description is also how I would interpret the word cast, as in the whole
image is tinted a bit green or red.

I think we all know, most modern binoculars are not afflicted in any significant
way to a degree like this.

As mentioned above, personal opinion has a lot to do with this.

Jerry
 
Perceptions, symantics, descriptions; words?

Of course, binoculars are affected by various color preferences (or biases) that the manufactures dial into them. How we see that is another variable, and then how we describe them is a third derivation to the issue at hand. Yes, it can get complicated if you want it to. I was just offering relatively light comparisons and observations of my binoculars, as I saw the differences, the best I could describe, as an amateur user, not a scientist or technician.

If you don't think I like my Endeavors, think again. They are great, and they offer a lot for the money spent. Each of them bring something to the table, and I enjoy them all, one at a time. Do I see green Martians with them? Not yet!

But, in the future, I won't offer such subjective opinions either, thank you.
 
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Barry:

I was not trying to pick on anyone here. It is just there are many ways to describe things,
and there are many watchers that read these posts, and those posts will be here, easy to find
in a google search for many more years to come.

Jerry
 
........
Here is Wikipedia's definition: 'A colour cast is a tint of a particular colour, usually unwanted, which affects the whole, or portion, of a photographic image evenly'.

Lee,

Not the clearest definition I've seen, but it will suffice. It also mentioned "Illuminating a subject with light sources of different colour temperatures will usually cause colour cast" which is closer to the context here. It definitely applies to binoculars too as many have a predominant tint like Barry notes. It does not mean "the word cast would imply that all of the colours of the bino concerned have a hint of the colour of the cast." Passive optical systems cannot add colour, only take it away so, sorry, the whole post doesn't make much sense to me.

I hope you noted the bit that says "the human eye does not notice the unnatural colour, because our eyes and brains adjust and compensate for different types of light ". The reality is that some can and some can't. Seems like Barry's can.

David
 
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You need to go to an optometrist and get your eyes dilated to see how large your pupils can get. If you have had that done, you will know what I mean. They can measure it then.
I actually had my eyes dilated last year by an ophthalmologist but didn't think about measuring my pupils. I do remember it was an unpleasant experience for the rest of the day however.

I just got this done myself and would highly recommend it. I was long overdue for an exam and very glad to get a clean result, apart from one floater that bothers me from time to time. It was also nice to hear that my pupils still dilate to the 6-7mm range (didn't request greater precision), confirming my impression that I still see well at night despite pushing 60. And no regrets about having just bought a 10x56!

It wasn't unpleasant either. The eye drops seemed nicer than what was used on me 13 years ago, no yellow gunk etc. I put on sunglasses afterward and was fine.
 
I just got this done myself and would highly recommend it. I was long overdue for an exam and very glad to get a clean result, apart from one floater that bothers me from time to time. It was also nice to hear that my pupils still dilate to the 6-7mm range (didn't request greater precision), confirming my impression that I still see well at night despite pushing 60. And no regrets about having just bought a 10x56!

It wasn't unpleasant either. The eye drops seemed nicer than what was used on me 13 years ago, no yellow gunk etc. I put on sunglasses afterward and was fine.

Getting ready to go through my annual Mydriasis test (dilation for eye care evaluation) on Monday...should also find out my maximum low light dilation potential. Once acclimated, my night vision is great...for 64! My daytime iris aperture is around 3 to 3.5mm. Since I make full use of a 5.0 EP in the 10X50's in extreme low light, suspect my nighttime to be at least 5+ of dilation...we'll See! :-O

Ted
 
Thanks, John, very interesting.
I've had this exam for at least three years and it's interesting to see the photos side-by-side as they are explained to me in rather careful detail.

The dilation process was absolute torture for me. I would have confessed to anything and everything!
 
Lee,

Not the clearest definition I've seen, but it will suffice. It also mentioned "Illuminating a subject with light sources of different colour temperatures will usually cause colour cast" which is closer to the context here. It definitely applies to binoculars too as many have a predominant tint like Barry notes. It does not mean "the word cast would imply that all of the colours of the bino concerned have a hint of the colour of the cast." Passive optical systems cannot add colour, only take it away so, sorry, the whole post doesn't make much sense to me.

I hope you noted the bit that says "the human eye does not notice the unnatural colour, because our eyes and brains adjust and compensate for different types of light ". The reality is that some can and some can't. Seems like Barry's can.

David

Let me try to be clearer. I was simply seeking to clarify what the OP was seeing, and in particular whether a spot colour was being emphasised according to his vision or whether according to his vision the whole view was suffused with a subtle hint of the colours he mentioned. It is this last possibility that I understand by the term 'cast'. All of this is a question concerning the OP's perceptions and nothing else.

Lee
 
There are quite a few different drugs and combination preparations available to the optometrist to dilate the pupil. They vary in how fast they work, how long they last, and how much they dilate. They can cause dilation beyond what is achievable in low light. My optician usually just switches off the lights for a couple of minutes and examines the pupil with a slit lamp as a quick check on normal response (not maximum dilation) but has used drops for photography. I did ask if the diameter reflected my low light dilation and he said no!

David
 
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