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carrion crow -Poland (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Michał Jaro
- Start date
The last ones are Hooded Crows I think (Wrona Siwa).
Michał Jaro
Well-known member
Thanks but at the bottom of pic 3 the bird is black !! (na dole !). Hooded crows - only for comparision !
Ah, sorry
The beak in pic #2 seems to me a bit too large for a Carrion Crow. But I'm not sure.
The beak in pic #2 seems to me a bit too large for a Carrion Crow. But I'm not sure.
Joern Lehmhus
Well-known member
in comparison with the hooded crows (Corvus corone cornix) , yes I´d say its also a carrion crow , but other subspecies, Black crow (Corvus corone corone). dificult to exclude a bird of mixed ancestry , as both ssp frequently hybridize where they meet.
see these from Vienna, no pure bird among them, all hybrids
https://www.flickr.com/photos/14195020@N08/25324450189/in/dateposted-public/
see these from Vienna, no pure bird among them, all hybrids
https://www.flickr.com/photos/14195020@N08/25324450189/in/dateposted-public/
Michał Jaro
Well-known member
Thanks a lot, for help Joern. So - both the birds should be Black crow or black crow mixed with ... hooded crow ?. The birds are all black (I think so) - which indicates hybridization ?
Hi Michal,
ornitho.de has a helpful page on hybrid crows:
http://www.ornitho.de/index.php?m_id=20076
They also link a French article with English picture captions, courtesy of the Swiss:
http://atlas.vogelwarte.ch/assets/files/pdf/Duquet_Corneille_hybride.pdf
I would say some grey feathers between the black would be required to identify a hybrid of the "black" type. The French text seems to state that pure Carrion Crows can appear to have some grey feathers in direct sunlight, though. I don't actually read French, though.
Here's a map showing the hybrid sightings in Germany:
http://www.ornitho.de/index.php?m_id=30223
I'd love to see how the distribution continues into Poland, but not having entered any sightings in ornitho.pl, all I can do is to query the last 14 days, which only show two hybrid sightings near Gdansk.
Extrapolating from the number of sightings in Eastern Germany, I would think that you should have a lot of hybrids in Western Poland as well!
Regards,
Henning
Michał Jaro;3672494 said:
ornitho.de has a helpful page on hybrid crows:
http://www.ornitho.de/index.php?m_id=20076
They also link a French article with English picture captions, courtesy of the Swiss:
http://atlas.vogelwarte.ch/assets/files/pdf/Duquet_Corneille_hybride.pdf
I would say some grey feathers between the black would be required to identify a hybrid of the "black" type. The French text seems to state that pure Carrion Crows can appear to have some grey feathers in direct sunlight, though. I don't actually read French, though.
Here's a map showing the hybrid sightings in Germany:
http://www.ornitho.de/index.php?m_id=30223
I'd love to see how the distribution continues into Poland, but not having entered any sightings in ornitho.pl, all I can do is to query the last 14 days, which only show two hybrid sightings near Gdansk.
Extrapolating from the number of sightings in Eastern Germany, I would think that you should have a lot of hybrids in Western Poland as well!
Regards,
Henning
phil baber
Clipped Wing
The beak length/shape/structure, and bronze neck-feathering on 1st 2 photos would suggest Kruk (Raven). In third? Head profile shows different bill structure (and very obvious length/structure comparison to neighboring congener!), despite looking similar size to Wrona (Crow).
I'd suggest your bird is a juvenile Raven. (2nd photo shows 30% more bill length then Carrion or Hooded Crow, and Raven skull shape, for instance. Plus "nasal feathering/half bill-length"...)
I'd suggest your bird is a juvenile Raven. (2nd photo shows 30% more bill length then Carrion or Hooded Crow, and Raven skull shape, for instance. Plus "nasal feathering/half bill-length"...)
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stevethehydra
Well-known member
If the front bird in the last photo is the same bird in the first 2 pics, it can't be a Raven as it's the same size as the Hooded Crows - Raven is much larger, probably a bigger size difference than Hooded/Carrion Crow vs Jackdaw!
It looks to me from the first and third photos like there might be some grey on the lower flanks, so it's likely a hybrid with more Carrion Crow than Hooded in it, but it is hard to rule out "pure" CC. I've seen similarly ambiguous birds in Scotland.
It looks to me from the first and third photos like there might be some grey on the lower flanks, so it's likely a hybrid with more Carrion Crow than Hooded in it, but it is hard to rule out "pure" CC. I've seen similarly ambiguous birds in Scotland.
Michał Jaro
Well-known member
there are 3 different birds. I am sending a photos with a wider perspective, and with hooded crows beside (for 1 and 2 bird). I also wonder if 1 and 2 are not ravens - but i'm wondering about size ...
Henning, i m sending ornitho maps from 2017 with hybrids and carrion crows met in Poland.
many thanks for all comments and opinions!
Henning, i m sending ornitho maps from 2017 with hybrids and carrion crows met in Poland.
many thanks for all comments and opinions!
Attachments
Hi Michal,
Thanks a lot - both are pretty rare in Poland, apparently. But the ornitho.de sightings on Usedom are nicely mirrored by the ornitho.pl sightings in Świnoujście, so the puzzle pieces fit!
With regard to the Raven identification, my impression is that whenever Crows and Raven meet, they quarrel.
Regards,
Henning
Michał Jaro;3672820 said:
Thanks a lot - both are pretty rare in Poland, apparently. But the ornitho.de sightings on Usedom are nicely mirrored by the ornitho.pl sightings in Świnoujście, so the puzzle pieces fit!
With regard to the Raven identification, my impression is that whenever Crows and Raven meet, they quarrel.
Regards,
Henning
