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Time for a Pipit ID again (1 Viewer)

Fulmar

Fulmar

Well-known member
This Pipit was seen disappearing with a bill full of grubs into a large clump where it apparently had its nest. I think it is a Rock Pipit, but I'm still having doubts if it's not a Meadow Pipit. Unfortunately not much is to be seen of the leg and bill colours. The photo was made at Gullane Point near Gullane in Scotland early June.

I'm looking forward to see your views on it.

Peter
 

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Hi Peter,

Rock Pipit it is, but a very bright one - I find myself asking questions about whether littoralis race birds (Scandinavian Rock Pipit) ever breed in Britain! (if they did, the east coast would be the obvious area)

Michael
 
Hi Michael,

Thanks for your comment. I notice that you are at the level of distinguishing between petrosus and littoralis subspecies (well, I knew you are!), while I am still at the level of trying to distinguish between the full species Meadow/Rock/Tree Pipit! Would you care to comment for my (and others) education why you are convinced that it is a Rock Pipit? Is it just because of the somewhat dusky appearance, or are there other clues?

Thanks in advance,
Peter
 
Hi Peter,

First, the very bold supercilium (eyebrow) - Meadow Pipit only has a weak one, but it does also have a thin pale ring round its eye, which your bird doesn't have. Rock Pipit usually has a grey supercilium, but littoralis has a white one, as do occasional UK petrosus race Rocks (which is presumably what this is, to come down to earth!)

Second, the very grey mantle and wing coverts - Meadow is buffy-brown there, grey is typical of Rock Pipit

Finally, this gives the general impression of being fairly stout and heavy for a pipit, whereas Meadows are small, lightweight, dainty.

No doubt some others can add to that, too!

Michael
 
Michael Frankis said:
Hi Peter,

First, the very bold supercilium (eyebrow) - Meadow Pipit only has a weak one, but it does also have a thin pale ring round its eye, which your bird doesn't have. Rock Pipit usually has a grey supercilium, but littoralis has a white one, as do occasional UK petrosus race Rocks (which is presumably what this is, to come down to earth!)

Second, the very grey mantle and wing coverts - Meadow is buffy-brown there, grey is typical of Rock Pipit

Finally, this gives the general impression of being fairly stout and heavy for a pipit, whereas Meadows are small, lightweight, dainty.

No doubt some others can add to that, too!

Michael
Click to expand...

Well i was hopeing my pipits would be cleared up by Michaels explantion. So i put it to the test and checked out a few pictures, but i stumbled on the first one. Here a Scotish meadow pipit i've just copied off another sight, it has what i would say is a bold super. So does this mean it's not a meadow pipit as the site claims or is the super. not bold?
If it is a meadow pipit, then to me (the untrained eye) it look pretty much like the bird at the top of the thread, so i'd say meadow pipit.

Totally confused as always.............
 

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For my untrained eye, I would also go for Rock Pipit for Jeff's photo: dark legs, dark bill, greyish appearance......

Peter
 
To me it looked like a Meadow at first sight (and it still does). But I´m not sure.

I don´t see many Rock Pipits (scandinavian) in summer plumage here but I have never seen one so bright.

I would expect more diffuse streaked breast and a greyish nape.

Frankis writes: "very grey mantle and wing coverts".
I think the mantle looks buffy-brown like Meadow.
 
I think I'd agree with THH Those spots look far too well defined for Rock Pipit.

The real clincher here would be habitat. Rock Pipit nests very close to the shore. How far was this bird from the sea?

Darrell
 
Ah, Marram Grass that well known favoured habitat of breeding ROCK pipits. Not.
Just to clarify, the mantle is olive green, heavily streaked and with pale braces (just about visible on the near side), clean, non-smudged streaking on the underparts, which have a 'classic' buff wash (getting stronger from the breast onto the flanks). The supercillium is well within the range of Meadow Pipit (a notoriously variable species).
 
I think its Meadow too. But why is harder to justify, since pipits are such jizzy things.

I have to with Michael disagree about the structure. It looks like a pathetic little Mipit to me. It doesn't help that it has a gob full of bugs.

I have seen underpart streaking that clean on one Scandi Rockit before, but it is outside the normal range.The sharpness and extent is typical for Mipit, as is the ground colour.

The biggest Mipit feature for me is the colour and streaking visible on the mantle. If this was an unusually clean and bright Rockit in breeding dress I would be expecting an almost unmarked ash-grey mantle...getting close to Water pipit, and streaks present would be diffuse. To me this looks heavily black streaked with braces on olive tinged buffy brown....classic Mipit
 
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I'd go for Meadow Pipit, it just is too bright and "clear" for Rock Pipit. I've seen quite a few Meadow Pipits with supers like this one particularly around the north Scottish coasts, and they do look quite different from duller Meadow Pips you see inland.
I'm really not sure if this is a "northern" race perhaps but these birds particularly in spring look very distinct. I've even seen them with a strong peach wash to the breast looking remarkably like an early spring Red Throated!

JP
 
I have, but can't find a pic I took this spring as a potential mystery photo. Head on the bird looks like a RT Pipit. The wash is past peach and on the way to brick. It too had a big super.... and a back just like a mipit!

I'll keep searching!
 
CJW said:
THH and Darrell are correct - it's a Meadow Pipit, Fulmar.
Click to expand...

Didn't i say it was Meadow Pipit as well? :) and first of all as well ;-)

Jane Turner why is it a pathetic little mipit? Do you not enjoy all birds in the same way i do, what's common today may be tomorrows rarity!!!!
 
Birding Scotland vol 3(2) has pictures of a bird which turned up at Rattray Head in March 2000 which was indeed initially thought to be RT Pipit. The throat was quite brick red but apart from that all other features pointed to Meadow. A Meadow Pipit I saw this spring near Ullapool to showed a similar feature and was with several other birds all showing a bright peachy wash to the throat and upper breast. This bird was with a group of what appeared to be passage birds. I suspect the feature is more common than we think, and wonder where this type originate.....

JP
 
had a bird similar to this at seaforth one spring, was the subject of a mystery bird article in british birds,,superficially looked quite similar to buff bellied pipit (japonicus) even had darkish legs and was really quite buffy on the underparts, it turned out to be a meadow pipit of one of the northern races (icelandic i think) the latin name of which i cant remember!!!
 
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