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Kingfisher in Macau (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter bellevuebirdphotographer
- Start date
arcadillor
Well-known member
right
Valéry Schollaert
Respect animals, don't eat or wear their body or s
Yes, but I'd rather call it White-breasted Kingfisher, as White-throated is often used for the endemic Philippine species.
bellevuebirdphotographer
Active member
Thanks!
RafaelMatias
Unknown member
aka Smyrna Kingfisher (nobody uses this anymore?) 
Valéry Schollaert
Respect animals, don't eat or wear their body or s
aka Smyrna Kingfisher (nobody uses this anymore?)
I don't hear that anymore, but to add a bit of the confusion, White-throated Kingfisher (Philippine endemic) is sometimes called Brown-breasted Kingfisher...
johnallcock
Well-known member
White-throated is the name that's usually used for the combined species before splitting the Philippine endemic (and is still used by IOC, who haven't yet accepted the split). To my mind, it would make more sense to use the names White-breasted and Brown-breasted after the split, to minimise confusion.
Andy Adcock
Worst person on Birdforum
What authority are you using?
White-throated is just a renaming of White-breasted on the IOC, Halcyon smyrnensis and is certainly not endemic to the Philippines, Brown-breasted Halcyon gularis is endemic to the Philippines but still treated as a race of the former.
Last edited:
Valéry Schollaert
Respect animals, don't eat or wear their body or s
I was not aware IOC was late on that case, no doubt they will update. It is an obvious split, accepted by HBW Alive / Birdlife as well as Clements/e-Birds.
https://www.hbw.com/species/white-breasted-kingfisher-halcyon-smyrnensis
https://www.hbw.com/species/white-throated-kingfisher-halcyon-gularis
Valéry Schollaert
Respect animals, don't eat or wear their body or s
I think you are right, I should follow Filipino birders that use Brown-breasted Kingfisher rather that the name used by HBW Alive.
Andy Adcock
Worst person on Birdforum
Why was there any need to change White-breasted to White-throated on the IOC list, it seems totally unneccessary to me?
In their search for scientific accuracy, all the taxonomists are doing, is causing confusion in the ranks of ordinary birders in many cases, damned 'tinkerers'
Valéry Schollaert
Respect animals, don't eat or wear their body or s
Why was there any need to change White-breasted to White-throated on the IOC list, it seems totally unneccessary to me?
In their search for scientific accuracy, all the taxonomists are doing, is causing confusion in the ranks of ordinary birders in many cases, damned 'tinkerers'
Well, if you include the Philippine population in the species, "White-breasted" is wrong, as Philippine birds have... brown breast.
I know, many names are much less accurate than that and are not changed.
Now, regarding research in taxonomy, although I love it at a personal, I can say selfish, point of view, I partly agree with your comment.
I think there are 3 important aspects
- Split or lump of closely related allopatric populations such those kingfishers should not waste millions of words and heavy research. It doesn't change much in our knowledge of them. We know they have the same origin, we know they don't meet each other and if one would be threatened (it is not the case), we should protect them whatever they are split or not.
- Some taxonomical changes are, in opposite, very informative and useful. For exemple, the similar looking Western and Olivaceous Warblers split was totally accurate and appropriate. Since we looked at them better, we found out they live sympatrically in Morocco (may be elsewhere too), so they are not that closely related.
- Generally speaking, I wish we would put much more means in conservation, even if this leads to less research. I prefer an unknown species that survive that an extinct species that we know perfectly... most people would argue that we need research to organise conservation. It was probably true in the 20th Century but, today, we know perfectly what to do, but we don't do...
Andy Adcock
Worst person on Birdforum
The species is usually named after the nominate form which does have a white breast over most of the species range. The White-throated form is in just a small part of the species range.
Valéry Schollaert
Respect animals, don't eat or wear their body or s
I don't disagree, I just explained you where the change came from.
johnallcock
Well-known member
Why was there any need to change White-breasted to White-throated on the IOC list, it seems totally unneccessary to me?
In their search for scientific accuracy, all the taxonomists are doing, is causing confusion in the ranks of ordinary birders in many cases, damned 'tinkerers'
It's not a recent change, it's been White-throated for many years. In fact I think this was the name used since the first version of the IOC list (and before that by various authors). Personally I think it seems reasonable as a name that is true for all subspecies (including gularis).
Using White-throated for a restricted gularis has the potential to cause confusion, compounded by the similarity of the name to White-breasted. Use of White-breasted (for smyrnensis s.s.) and Brown-breasted (for gularis) seems more logical to me if the split is adopted.
Andy Adcock
Worst person on Birdforum
Agree John.
birdboybowley
Well-known member.....apparently so ;)
aka Smyrna Kingfisher (nobody uses this anymore?)
I do! :-O
Andy Adcock
Worst person on Birdforum
Must admit, I used it when I first saw it in Israel in the 90's but not since.
Jeff Hopkins
Just another...observer
Clements confuses it even further. They use White-throated for smyrnensis and also accept the split of gularis as brown-breasted.
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