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Twite and more, Scotland, UK

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Old Tuesday 24th June 2014, 18:07   #1
Pancho85
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Twite and more, Scotland, UK

Hi, I saw this bird in the Isle of Skye last Saturday. What is it?

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Also I saw this one, which I'm quite sure it's a young wheatear, isn't it?

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This one I'm not sure about what it is

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And also this wadder...greenshank?

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Old Tuesday 24th June 2014, 18:27   #2
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Meadow Pipit, Wheatear, Twite and Greenshank.

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Old Wednesday 25th June 2014, 13:26   #3
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Young Meadow Pipit, young Wheatear, Linnet (also young? I fail to see a yellow bill for Twite) and Greenshank in my opinion.
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Old Wednesday 25th June 2014, 13:41   #4
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Linnet (also young? I fail to see a yellow bill for Twite)
Twite for me; they get a dark bill in the summer, just something us lowlanders aren't used to seeing . The dark streaking fits Twite much better. Twite is also much the commoner of the two on Skye.
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Old Wednesday 25th June 2014, 13:44   #5
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nobody thinking that greenshank looks too dark on undertside? maybe a young redshank? but then where is the white trailing edge?
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Old Wednesday 25th June 2014, 13:55   #6
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nobody thinking that greenshank looks too dark on undertside? maybe a young redshank? but then where is the white trailing edge?
No problem for a well-marked breeding plumage bird; Greenshank is a reasonably common breeding species on Skye, so a very plausible sighting too.
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Old Wednesday 25th June 2014, 22:48   #7
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Great, thanks all for your help, and thanks, Nutcracker, for your explanations!!
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Old Wednesday 25th June 2014, 23:32   #8
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Twite for me; they get a dark bill in the summer, just something us lowlanders aren't used to seeing . The dark streaking fits Twite much better. Twite is also much the commoner of the two on Skye.
Are Stonechat and/or Whinchat also present on Skye? I mean, I don't get a twite or linnet feel at all on this bird...
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Old Thursday 26th June 2014, 10:45   #9
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Are Stonechat and/or Whinchat also present on Skye? I mean, I don't get a twite or linnet feel at all on this bird...
Agree
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Old Thursday 26th June 2014, 11:10   #10
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I also got a Saxicola feel when first looking at that photo and was suprised at people suggesting Linnet and Twite, but on a second look it pretty clearly has a finch-type beak, so I think it has to be a Carduelis sp. doing a chat impression!
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Old Thursday 26th June 2014, 14:36   #11
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It really looks like a chat to me.
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Old Friday 27th June 2014, 09:42   #12
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The V tail doesn't look right for a chat
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Old Friday 27th June 2014, 09:55   #13
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The V tail doesn't look right for a chat
Not necessarily a problem:
http://www.agataurbaniak.com/gallery...type=img&id=37

Recently fledged Stonechats can look rather short-billed too:
http://www.chog.org.uk/Sightings%20P.../Stonechat.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-3yl8OL4ZeH...0Stonechat.jpg
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Old Friday 27th June 2014, 10:00   #14
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The rounded feathers in that link are completely different from the straight lines of the bird in the OP picture. I don't see a chat here
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Old Friday 27th June 2014, 10:02   #15
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The rounded feathers in that link are completely different from the straight lines of the bird in the OP picture. I don't see a chat here
I don't see too much of a difference and, in any case, any differences are likely to be produced by the different angle of view.
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Old Friday 27th June 2014, 10:22   #16
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No, still don't see the similarity and don't think the angle of view covers it. I still see a definite finch's tail and can't get a chat here
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Old Friday 27th June 2014, 11:14   #17
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Stonechat for me too
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Old Friday 27th June 2014, 17:28   #18
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Old Friday 27th June 2014, 18:23   #19
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Having initially thought that it did look Chat like, I looked much closer at the bill (cropping the photo in to just the eye and bill area) and decided that whatever it was it didn't look like a Chat after all. The bill shape looked more finch-like but didn't look quite right for a Twite (or Linnet). It did remind me more of the size and shape of a Redpoll bill, so I searched for photos of young juvenile Redpoll and found a few where the bill is grey and the black patch below hasn't yet formed.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/ivl_wi...hy/4755396758/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/elmabe...57629469754600

Now, I've never seen a juvenile Redpoll at this stage of its development in real life, so feel free to shoot down the suggestion. I'm not seeing a Chat like bill though.
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Old Friday 27th June 2014, 19:22   #20
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stonefaction. the bill looks deceiving. it is foreshortened (almost front view) and probably not fully grown. trust a whole bunch of experienced birders who all said it is a stonechat, add me. compare with many pics of juv stonechats - because that's what it is. jizz, structure and stance is totally different to that of carduelis finches. long legs for instance. different head shape etc.
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Old Friday 27th June 2014, 21:38   #21
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Lou, while searching for photos of Linnets etc looking long legged (on swaying branches, stood in water etc) I found this young Stonechat opposite a Chaffinch on a short sequence of photos I have from a few years ago. The bill looks thin in all 4 photos, as I would expect a Stonechat's bill to look. The one in the original photo, even allowing for foreshortening looks different to what I would expect to see (which may not be what I WOULD see in reality).

Also the relative size of the eye to the head looks more Twite/Redpoll/Linnet than Stonechat to me in the original pic, and the fluffed up appearance gives a roughly finch-like head and shoulders profile, much more so than I can find in any Stonechat photo of mine (and a quick scan on google). Being indecisive I can argue with myself for both Stonechat and Finch with myself on this one.

Now, I know you and Andrew (who I have had the pleasure of having met) are much more experienced birders than me (as are probably at least some of the others on this thread), however I don't think I, personally, would be comfortable enough putting a definite ID, one way or another, on this bird if this photo was all I had to go on (unlikely in the field).

I have just enough doubts for me to choose to sit on the fence (My Redpoll suggestion was just that - a suggestion based on my interpretation of the jizz). On the balance of probability it is likely you guys are indeed correct. I'm not doubting you, I'm just trying to see what you are seeing (I do follow your reasoning for it being a Stonechat).

Do we know if Pancho has any other photos of this bird? If so, I would be interested in seeing them (no matter the quality).
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Old Friday 27th June 2014, 21:47   #22
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the juv. stonechat in your last 4 photos, stonefaction, has a fully grown bill, not so the one in the OP's pic. just stumbled over this juv whinchat on a swedish site, pics from today:
http://svalan.artdata.slu.se/artport...rge/574573.jpg
http://svalan.artdata.slu.se/artport...rge/574572.jpg
well, whinchat has a stronger bill anyway, so might not be the best proof.
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Old Friday 27th June 2014, 22:02   #23
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I found a photo with a bill similar in length in my own 'archives'. It is more the apparent width that is not quite computing with me, though I can almost make sense of it in my head (though not really put it into words). I think it may just be not what I 'expect' to see when I think of juvenile Stonechat.
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Old Friday 27th June 2014, 22:07   #24
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Omg...what a discussion xD

here you have more pictures to see if they can help!!


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Old Friday 27th June 2014, 22:15   #25
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Can see it is a Stonechat now. Thanks. :-)
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