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EDG - where are you? (1 Viewer)

Probably because it infringed Swarovski patents and Swarovski wanted royalties.

There is no evidence for this. It was mentioned on a German optics site as a rumor.

Swaro does not have a patent on the open bridge. There were open-bridge bins before the EL. They do have patents on the optomech of the EL but I doubt the Nikon infringes.

I suspect the change from the limited original release (US and Japan) was to reduce weight (by dropping the "open bridge" or making it more open).

Better another delay than a "rush to market" like the EDG I, the first production run(s) of which had loose focuser caps.

Seems to me that just fixing the focuser knob issue

The "focuser knob issue" seems to be one of insufficient documentation for the original reviewers -- it's a focus lock feature not a bug (yes, it says in the manual).

But I agree with the comment about the price bump: the new price is insane.
 
The EDG 1st generation was a brand new binocular in all respects.

One very obvious and very annoying problem the EDG 1st generation did have was keeping it's objective covers from falling off. The ones on mine fell off as soon as I took them out of the box! There wasn't enough room in front of the hinge for them to stay on. This is not the type of problem one would want to have associated with ones best product!

This is a problem the EL's also share based on reviews of them I have seen in the Eagle Optics site.

The 2nd generation EDG retains a triangular portion of that now removed front hinge for the objective covers to hook on to and that seems to have solved that particular problem. The center hinge (formerly the back hinge) on them is now also larger than the back hinge was on generation 1. I surmise that this was probably done to strengthen the binocular. Other than that there doesn't appear to be too much difference as far as exterior changes go. I would think that these changes should not increase their respective costs by $300.00 if indeed they do. Unless the changing economic conditions contributed to it. (And these conditions should also affect the other binocular manufacturers lead products.) We will see as soon as they become generally available.

Bob
 
There is no evidence for this. It was mentioned on a German optics site as a rumor.

Swaro does not have a patent on the open bridge. There were open-bridge bins before the EL. They do have patents on the optomech of the EL but I doubt the Nikon infringes.

I suspect the change from the limited original release (US and Japan) was to reduce weight (by dropping the "open bridge" or making it more open).

Kevin, If you check the specs, they only dropped about an ounce by eliminating the objective end bridge, because they had to make the one remaining bridge sturdier.

So weight could not be the chief consideration in the design change. The EDG II redesign is still a mystery wrapped in an enigma. I'd ask Myron, the Nikon rep, but he'd probably just say, "That information is not in my knowledge base". How you much you want to bet? :)


The "focuser knob issue" seems to be one of insufficient documentation for the original reviewers -- it's a focus lock feature not a bug (yes, it says in the manual).

But I agree with the comment about the price bump: the new price is insane.

I agree about the change in style not being a patent infringement. With all the open bridge roofs out today, that should be obvious.

However, I disagree about the early reviewers not having the proper documentation as the reason why the focuser didn't work, though I did read a reviewer who said something to that effect, not being able to believe I suppose that it could be a defective part or perhaps a poorly designed part.

Having tried one of the original EDGs, I can attest that the focuser issue was most definitely a "bug," because it certainly "bugged" me!

Nikon as much as admitted to the problem when they replaced the defective sample with a new one that has a "lip" (for the lack of a better word), which holds the cap in place. Jerry could explain the difference better, I haven't tried newer EDG I with the "fix".

Not ALL EDG I focusers were loose, however, as Bob's testimony proves. It was the first production run that was released with the toulouse focusers. How many of those went out that way, I have no idea, but Nikon came up with a simple fix and cured the problem, hence Jerry's second sample, with a functional focuser knob.

The first sample's focuser knob would not lock in place since there was nothing to lock it with. You had to keep the bin level or point it downward to make it stay put.

With the EL, you push the knob backwards and it "clicks" in place. With the original EDG, you could push the knob up and down without any friction. If it wasn't pushed all the way back and held there, the knob would just spin.

I also thought the brass (?) diopter ring was hard to find and turn. Not that it was stiff, there just wasn't anything to grab on to. There are some very shallow hatch marks in the ring, but those are even hard to grip without gloves. With gloves, I couldn't feel the hatch marks so I had to apply downward pressure to the small ring to turn it (if you can find it w/out looking). I always had to turn the bin toward me to find the diopter ring. Not a very functional design, IMO.

Swaro did a much better job with this set up on the EL, but I still don't like having to pull off a cap to get to a hidden diopter.

The best on-the-focuser diopter I've tried was the pre-HD SLC. You press down on the diopter ring with one finger, turn it and release, all while keeping your hands on the bin. It doesn't get any easier than that. Not sure why Swaro changed that really good design on the SLC-HDs other than to make it more EL-like in both design and cost.

Aside from the pre-HD SLC set up, I prefer a pop-up right EP diopter ring like the Nikon HG/L series. YMMV.
 
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Kevin, If you check the specs, they only dropped about an ounce by eliminating the objective end bridge, because they had to make the one remaining bridge sturdier.

I did. Last time I checked brock when something is 1 oz lighter the weight of it is reduced.

However, I disagree about the early reviewers not having the proper documentation as the reason why the focuser didn't work, though I did read a reviewer who said something to that effect, not being able to believe I suppose that it could be a defective part or perhaps a poorly designed part.

Preproduction review copies don't come with a manual.

The neutral position is a design feature not a bug. What may (or may not) be a bug is how easy it is to operate. I think they were trying to avoid the Zeiss problem of moving the focused position when switching to diopter setting mode.

A brass diopter ring? I have a serial 38 bin and it's not brass ... again pre-production bins aren't shipping bins. I don't have a problem in setting the diopter (in real life).

Though I think both the Zeiss and Nikon systems are OK I think Leica has the best diopter seting mechanism with the "split" focus mode. The Bushnell Elite is a close second but I'd prefer it if it didn't have "steps".

One very obvious and very annoying problem the EDG 1st generation did have was keeping it's objective covers from falling off. The ones on mine fell off as soon as I took them out of the box! There wasn't enough room in front of the hinge for them to stay on. This is not the type of problem one would want to have associated with ones best product!

A much more annoying problem than the "focuser problem".

I've lost mine three times (recovered on each occasion). I now remove them before going out birding.

The other annoying issue is the hard (clanky hard) ABS rain guard. That is replace in the EDG v2 with a rubber rain guard.
 
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brock, I agree with you on the SLC dopter.....easiest, most functional setup out there. Meopta tried to copy this, but their's doesn't have to be pushed in as you know, it is just a friction knob that looks exactly like the SLC setup.
 
I did. Last time I checked brock when something is 1 oz lighter the weight of it is reduced.

Preproduction review copies don't come with a manual.

The neutral position is a design feature not a bug. What may (or may not) be a bug is how easy it is to operate. I think they were trying to avoid the Zeiss problem of moving the focused position when switching to diopter setting mode.

A brass diopter ring? I have a serial 38 bin and it's not brass ... again pre-production bins aren't shipping bins. I don't have a problem in setting the diopter (in real life).

C'mon, Kev, give it up! You think Nikon would actually go to the trouble and expense of redesigning the EDG line merely to save an ounce? NICHT!

You conveniently dropped the (?) off my quote when I wrote "brass (?)". I didn't take it into the lab for analysis, but it looked like brass. Whatever the metal, it's polished as smooth as a baby's bottom and hard for me to grip with gloves. I would prefer a diopter ring with either some deep notches or raised ridges for a more positive grip, particularly in cold weather.

The focuser on the EDG I tried only had a neutral position. There was no "clutch" to keep it engaged. As far as I know, Jerry's first 10x42 sample was a production bin not a prototype. Perhaps the 32mm model had the "fix" before it was released.

In any case, the EDG focuser issue was a "real life" bug, not imaginary. Here are Mike Freiberg's comments on this:

"The field-of-view on the 7x42s are 417 feet at 1000 yards which is incredible. I used the 7x42 EDGs for over a year and found them to be great in the field. The focus wheel problem has been a progressive fix with Nikon constantly tightening down the tension as each shipment arrives. The new EDGs should really be okay with this spec."

Best,
Mike Freiberg
Nikon's Birding Market Specialist

Thread (post 4):

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=184156

You can now find a paper towel and wipe the egg off your face. :)
 
Swaro does not have a patent on the open bridge. There were open-bridge bins before the EL. They do have patents on the optomech of the EL but I doubt the Nikon infringes.

Kevin,

See this link: http://www.hoferwaffen.com/images/optics/Swarowski_de.pdf and scroll down to the illustration of the EL. Next to the focussing knob it says "Patentierte Mechanik" (patented mechanism).

BTW, what internally focussing open-bridge roofs were there before the EL?

John
 
The patent is on the particular mechanism (which is a different one in the Swaro) in the EL. The patent has been cited in previous discussions. That's no evidence that the EDGs infringe. You'd have to pull the mechanisms apart and look for similarities. Every "alpha" bin that skips usually has enough innovation in it to get one or patents: you can look for the Leica Ultravid, Zeiss FL and EL (and I presume Swarovision EL) patents and find all of them. It gives a nice insight into how the bins are made.

There is no patent on open-bridge bins. The idea of open-bridge bins goes back a long way. We've talked about this before. Internal focus or not is irrelevant.

Brock: what is the evidence for a "re-design"? None aside from a removal of the bottom connection between the barrels. That's a simple delete in the CAD program not a redesign. Saves weight and lets you do away with the objective covers that fall off (and weight more).

A patent infringement would require an redesign of the internal optomech because that's what would be infringing.. You don't do a major redesign and ship a bin in under a year.

As I asked before: where is the evidence for your assertion? I still haven't seen any.

Finally the focus free setting was seen ONLY as a bug in the reviews. The reason it has to have a low force to operate (unlike the diopter setting in the Ultravids or FLs) is because it's a focus lock and should be operated with one or two fingers. Getting the right force is a bit of a challenge. But I find it's not an issue on my (early issue) 8x32 EDG. I doubt this bin has any mods.
 
Brock: what is the evidence for a "re-design"? None aside from a removal of the bottom connection between the barrels. That's a simple delete in the CAD program not a redesign. Saves weight and lets you do away with the objective covers that fall off (and weight more)....

Kevin: As an art lover, I would have expected you to be a more astute observer of differences in lines, shapes, and textures, and that the "evidence" of an EDG redesign would be obvious. But since it's not, I will walk you through it.

First, here's side by side comparison to get the "big picture":

http://www.bestbinocularsreviews.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/Nikon-New-EDG-comparisson.jpg

Next is a vertical photo of the old style and then a vertical view the new style (best compared if you open two "windows" and size them so you can see the photos side by side or use the multiple window mode in Windows 7):

EDG I

http://a.espncdn.com/winnercomm/outdoors/hunting/iii/ATA/2008/ATA_Gear/Day_Three/02.jpg

EDG II

http://allbinos.com/lornetki_image/1869_nik10x42_4.jpg

After going back and forth, you should see some obvious design differences that go beyond merely dropping the second bridge, and with more careful observation, more subtle differences.

Bridges

First is the redesign of the top bridge. Not only is the top bridge much larger on the EDG II but it has a "cooler" shape. The "Dark Knight" would be at home with the "II" design.

The EDG I's upper bridge has a flat double trapezoid shape and is located below the focuser.

The EDG II's single bridge has a raised double trapezoid shape with a 3-D beveled top that wraps around the focuser.

Those are the basic differences btwn the two focusers: size, shape, and dimension.

Groovy barrels

Moving up toward the eyecups, you will notice on the "II" a vertical unarmored groove running up the side of the barrels and into the top of the external eyepiece housing. Not sure what the function is behind this design, other than to accommodate the focuser knob (but why? Is it larger?). I won't speculate, but since "form follows function" (to quote you quoting architect Louis Sullivan), there must be a function for this groove. Whatever the case, it is a redesigned element.

Strap Lugs

Take note how the strap lugs on the "II" version protrude farther from the barrels than in the "I". This winged strap lug design is very similar to the Nikon Premier. Not only is it an attractive feature, but also functional in that it acts as a "back stop" for your palms. So they don't slide up toward the EPs. I liked this design feature on the Premier and am glad to see it now on the EDG.

Armoring

The EDG I is only armored on the outside edges of the barrels, with bare metal between the barrels where your fingers meet the cold metal in the winter, at the top near the focuser, and at the bottom as a band that follows out from the bottom focuser.

The EDG II is nearly fully armored except for a trapezoidal shaped bare metal spot below the bridge on both sides, the bottom of the focus knob (same as the "I"), and the bare metal of the focuser "groove" and external top of the EP housing.

Vestigial Bottom Bridge

At the bottom, you can see more clearly in the "two shot," the vestigial bridge "nibs" of the original edge. My guess is that they are there for the same reason as the winged strap lugs, to keep your hand (or fingers in this case) from sliding off the barrels.

Subtle Changes

Note the shape of the emblems in each model. In the "I" the plates with "Nikon" and "EDG" are flush with the shape of the bridge.

With the "II" the emblems are inset into the bridge and also note the "zigzag" line at the bottom of the emblem as if to emphasize the sharp angles of the redesigned bridge.

Ergonomic Impact of the Redesign

The important question beyond aesthetic differences is: What is the ergonomic impact of this redesign?

For one thing, the winged strap lugs will keep your hands better stabilized in the "II". Beyond that, I couldn't say, not having handled the "II".

My chief concern is how the larger single bridge affects the room between the open barrels on the "II". It appears to give less space for your fingers unless you place your pinky fingers over the vestigial bridge nibs at the end of the barrels. I'd have to do an A/B comparison to see how that works for my hands.

Well, there you have it! Now after all that if you still insist that the only difference is the missing one ounce of the lower bridge, I will refer you to an optometrist. :)

Brock
 
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Kevin: As an art lover, I would have expected you to be a more astute observer of differences in lines, shapes, and textures, and that the "evidence" of an EDG redesign would be obvious. But since it's not, I will walk you through it.

First, here's side by side comparison to get the "big picture":

http://www.bestbinocularsreviews.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/Nikon-New-EDG-comparisson.jpg

Next is a vertical photo of the old style and then a vertical view the new style (best compared if you open two "windows" and size them so you can see the photos side by side or use the multiple window mode in Windows 7):

EDG I

http://a.espncdn.com/winnercomm/outdoors/hunting/iii/ATA/2008/ATA_Gear/Day_Three/02.jpg

EDG II

http://allbinos.com/lornetki_image/1869_nik10x42_4.jpg

After going back and forth, you should see some obvious design differences that go beyond merely dropping the second bridge, and with more careful observation, more subtle differences.

Bridges

First is the redesign of the top bridge. Not only is the top bridge much larger on the EDG II but it has a "cooler" shape. The "Dark Knight" would be at home with the "II" design.

The EDG I's upper bridge has a flat double trapezoid shape and is located below the focuser.

The EDG II's single bridge has a raised double trapezoid shape with a 3-D beveled top that wraps around the focuser.

Those are the basic differences btwn the two focusers: size, shape, and dimension.

Groovy barrels

Moving up toward the eyecups, you will notice on the "II" a vertical unarmored groove running up the side of the barrels and into the top of the external eyepiece housing. Not sure what the function is behind this design, other than to accommodate the focuser knob (but why? Is it larger?). I won't speculate, but since "form follows function" (to quote you quoting architect Louis Sullivan), there must be a function for this groove. Whatever the case, it is a redesigned element.

Strap Lugs

Take note how the strap lugs on the "II" version protrude farther from the barrels than in the "I". This winged strap lug design is very similar to the Nikon Premier. Not only is it an attractive feature, but also functional in that it acts as a "back stop" for your palms. So they don't slide up toward the EPs. I liked this design feature on the Premier and am glad to see it now on the EDG.

Armoring

The EDG I is only armored on the outside edges of the barrels, with bare metal between the barrels where your fingers meet the cold metal in the winter, at the top near the focuser, and at the bottom as a band that follows out from the bottom focuser.

The EDG II is nearly fully armored except for a trapezoidal shaped bare metal spot below the bridge on both sides, the bottom of the focus knob (same as the "I"), and the bare metal of the focuser "groove" and external top of the EP housing.

Vestigial Bottom Bridge

At the bottom, you can see more clearly in the "two shot," the vestigial bridge "nibs" of the original edge. My guess is that they are there for the same reason as the winged strap lugs, to keep your hand (or fingers in this case) from sliding off the barrels.

Subtle Changes

Note the shape of the emblems in each model. In the "I" the plates with "Nikon" and "EDG" are flush with the shape of the bridge.

With the "II" the emblems are inset into the bridge and also note the "zigzag" line at the bottom of the emblem as if to emphasize the sharp angles of the redesigned bridge.

Ergonomic Impact of the Redesign

The important question beyond aesthetic differences is: What is the ergonomic impact of this redesign?

For one thing, the winged strap lugs will keep your hands better stabilized in the "II". Beyond that, I couldn't say, not having handled the "II".

My chief concern is how the larger single bridge affects the room between the open barrels on the "II". It appears to give less space for your fingers unless you place your pinky fingers over the vestigial bridge nibs at the end of the barrels. I'd have to do an A/B comparison to see how that works for my hands.

Well, there you have it! Now after all that if you still insist that the only difference is the missing one ounce of the lower bridge, I will refer you to an optometrist. :)

Brock


Some comments on the above:

Re the Groovy Barrels: I examined my 10 x 32 EDG I. There is a groove along the inside barrels of it to make room for the focusing wheel. These grooves appear to be the same size as the ones shown in the photo of the EDG II. You can't see them very well in the above photo of the EDG I.

Re the 1st comparison link shown above: I think that the 1st binocular shown is a 32mm EDG II, not a 42mm. And the Strap Lugs on it do appear to have been changed to be more like the old LX L. (I also have one of them.)

Re the Bridges: Both bridges are integral parts of the metal portion of the binocular on the inside part of the barrels. The bridge on the EDG II is longer, probably to add strength and integrity to the bridge. Removing the front hinge makes it easier to put armoring on the inside of the barrels.

In the 2nd link the EDG II pictured is a 42mm. Also in the second link the EDG I, held in someone's, hands appears to be a 32mm. That might be the reason for apparent difference in the design of the bridges. The focus wheels on both should be the same size, but there is more exposed metal where the bridge attaches to the binocular in the 42mm binocular.

I have seen pictures of the new EDG II where the vestigial bridge nibs left over from the old front hinge are used as anchoring points for the newly designed objective covers to help keep them in place.

Bob
 
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Some comments on the above:

There is a groove along the inside barrels of the EDG I to make room for the focusing wheel. It appears to be the same size as the one shown in the photo of the EDG II. You can't see it very well in the above photo of the EDG I.

Both bridges are integral parts of the metal portion of the binocular on the inside portion of the barrels. The bridge on the EDG II is longer, probably to add strength and integrity to the bridge.

The EDG II pictured above is a 42mm. The EDG I, held in someone's, hands appears to be a 32mm. That might be the reason for apparent difference in their design. The focus wheel on both should be the same size, but there is more exposed metal where the bridge attaches to the binocular in the 42mm binocular.

Bob,

It's been a while since I've handled the EDG I, forgot about the grooves and they aren't visible in most images of that version, however, you can just barely see them this image of the EDG I from the reflected light:

http://www.bestbinocularsreviews.com/images/nikon-edg-10x42-binoculars.jpg

Okay, let's say for argument's sake that the reviewer made a mistake and posted the wrong configuration in the hand shot photo.

Let's try this A/B again, with the same configuration (7x42) clearly identified in the URL in both the "I" and "II" versions:

EDG I

http://www.productwiki.com/upload/images/nikon_edg_7x42.jpg

EDG II

http://www.cliftoncameras.co.uk/uploads/products/nikon_edg_7x42.gif

Use a tape measure (the two images are not to the same scale as each other, but the focusers are of the same scale as the other parts on each bin) or place two fingers on either end of the focuser and then move it down to the bridge, and you should see that the EDG II's bridge is larger. Has to be to support all the weight.

Thanks for pointing out those grooves on the EDG I.

Brock
 
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Looks like a redesign to me too brock. The diopter mechanism in the original EDI was a joke @ $2k.

Finally someone with 20/20 vision! :) As Ross would say on "Friends" - THANK YOU!

Although the EDG was redesigned, it wasn't a radical departure from the original version such as the SLC-HD was from the SLCNeu.

The "II" doesn't have internal changes, as far as we know, nor different glass or coatings or different specs. So then what was the motivation for the redesign? Change for change's sake? I doubt it, Nikon is too conservative a company for such American wastefulness.

If we can find out why Nikon redesigned a bin that had only been out for a short time and not distributed globally, then buyers would have some basis to decide why they should buy this more expensive model over a leftover, demo, refurb, or used later production original (with a fully functioning focuser knob).

Had the repeated delays, the shunning of the European market (where it's main competition is made), and the focuser problems tarnished the image of the EDG I so much that Nikon felt the only way to overcome this bad mojo was to make a new model that looked different but was otherwise essentially the same?

Stay tuned for the final chapter in the Hardy Boys mystery: The Curious Case of the EDG II.
 
It's hard to tell the exact shape/size from the pictures, especially when they are shot from different angles. From my use of the EDG I and II, they appear very similar in most aspects.

The barrel grooves are the same on I and II.

The strap lugs are the same shape and size on I and II: the lugs on I has rubber cover on the bottom half and bare metal on the top, while II has rubber cover on the whole lug surface.

EDG II has more rubber armoring as Brock noted.

There's no "vestigial bottom bridge" on EDG II. The protrusions are molded onto the rubber armor to provide anchor points for the tethered objective covers, which don't fall off as the ones on EDG I.

The bridge on EDG II is longer than the top bridge of EDG I. The emblem pieces are redesigned to fit the larger area available.

The optics appear to be the same. The way the focuser and diopter control works stays the same.

One thing you can't see from the pictures is that the rubber on the back of the barrels has more a more contoured shape on EDG II than I. This may help you when you used it one-handed.

That's about all the differences and similarities that I can see. As good as the optics in the EDG (as close to the SE as I've seen, slightly better in some aspects), I can't think of anything that will make the view that much better. Fixing the objective covers, putting on a little bit more rubber armoring, and making the bin a little bit lighter might be enough reason for a redesign.
 
It seems like it would take more time to design, introduce, get feedback from the field on, and upgrade an alpha level binocular to finished form. If it's a good design, like the Zeiss FL for example, it may hang on for years and years with nothing more than minor coating upgrades. What is happening with the EDG is unfortunate, and perhaps necessitated by lawsuit (??? lots of other companies are getting away with open bridges, what's the problem here?), but ultimately, silly. It looks like a big glitch in the process, to me. In some way, they are starting over what was expensive to do in the first place. Who's gonna eat it, huh?
Ron
 
Bob,

It's been a while since I've handled the EDG I, forgot about the grooves and they aren't visible in most images of that version, however, you can just barely see them this image of the EDG I from the reflected light:

http://www.bestbinocularsreviews.com/images/nikon-edg-10x42-binoculars.jpg

Okay, let's say for argument's sake that the reviewer made a mistake and posted the wrong configuration in the hand shot photo.

Let's try this A/B again, with the same configuration (7x42) clearly identified in the URL in both the "I" and "II" versions:

EDG I

http://www.productwiki.com/upload/images/nikon_edg_7x42.jpg

EDG II

http://www.cliftoncameras.co.uk/uploads/products/nikon_edg_7x42.gif

Use a tape measure (the two images are not to the same scale as each other, but the focusers are of the same scale as the other parts on each bin) or place two fingers on either end of the focuser and then move it down to the bridge, and you should see that the EDG II's bridge is larger. Has to be to support all the weight.


Brock,
Of course the bridge is larger on the EDG II! Anybody can see that. Where did you get the idea I said that it wasn't? I did mention that there is more exposed metal to use in reconstructing it on the 42's than on the 32's. I thought that might be the reason for it's appearance as a raised double trapezoidal shape. I haven't seen a new 32mm EDG so I can't tell if it has that shape or not. The EDG I's is pretty well standard in appearance.

I also wasn't aware that the "vestigial protrusions"were not part of the original front hinge and that they are really molded into the armor to anchor the objective covers.

Frankly, I think that there were several reasons for the redesign. In addition to the penchant of the objective covers to fall off, they may also have decided there wasn't enough room between the hinges for people with big hands and decided to go with a traditional bridge. There is just enough room for my ring finger and little finger to fit inside it. My middle finger and index finger won't fit there.

Some people like open bridges. Some don't. Given my choice at equal prices I would always chose the latter. They are more comfortable and adaptable to variations of they ways they can be held.

Finally: There is absolutely nothing wrong with the diopter setting mechanism on my EDG I. The focus wheel has 3 positions: All the way down is for focusing. The next one up is a FOCUS LOCK where it free wheels; the focus that is set at that time stays set there. The top position is where you put it when you set the diopter. All snide remarks to the contrary, this is a basic and quite simple operation to use in setting the diopter. Space Pilot has confirmed that this has not been changed.

I don't know how many of these EDG I's were made and sold. I don't think it was many and it doesn't look like many are left. (If any are left at all.) All I know is that they were a great bargain while they lasted! And my guess is the new ones will sell for less than their competition will sell for now that they have got them the way they want them. Nikons always do.

Bob
 
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It seems like it would take more time to design, introduce, get feedback from the field on, and upgrade an alpha level binocular to finished form. If it's a good design, like the Zeiss FL for example, it may hang on for years and years with nothing more than minor coating upgrades. What is happening with the EDG is unfortunate, and perhaps necessitated by lawsuit (??? lots of other companies are getting away with open bridges, what's the problem here?), but ultimately, silly. It looks like a big glitch in the process, to me. In some way, they are starting over what was expensive to do in the first place. Who's gonna eat it, huh?
Ron

Ron,
Now that they have them the way they want them I don't think you are going to see visible changes in them for many years. Like they did with their SE's and LX/HG series. I think they experimented with them first in the USA. No one knows. Big corporations are secretive. Japanese ones are inscrutable on top of that!
Bob
 
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Brock,
Of course the bridge is larger on the EDG II! Anybody can see that. Where did you get the idea I said that it wasn't? I did mention that there is more exposed metal to use in reconstructing it on the 42's than on the 32's. I thought that might be the reason for it's appearance as a raised double trapezoidal shape. I haven't seen a new 32mm EDG so I can't tell if it has that shape or not. The EDG I's is pretty well standard in appearance.

I also wasn't aware that the "vestigial protrusions"were not part of the original front hinge and that they are really molded into the armor to anchor the objective covers.

Frankly, I think that there were several reasons for the redesign. In addition to the penchant of the objective covers to fall off, they may also have decided there wasn't enough room between the hinges for people with big hands and decided to go with a traditional bridge. There is just enough room for my ring finger and little finger to fit inside it. My middle finger and index finger won't fit there.

Some people like open bridges. Some don't. Given my choice at equal prices I would always chose the latter. They are more comfortable and adaptable to variations of they ways they can be held.

Finally: There is absolutely nothing wrong with the diopter setting mechanism on my EDG I. The focus wheel has 3 positions: All the way down is for focusing. The next one up is a FOCUS LOCK where it free wheels; the focus that is set at that time stays set there. The top position is where you put it when you set the diopter. All snide remarks to the contrary, this is a basic and quite simple operation to use in setting the diopter. Space Pilot has confirmed that this has not been changed.

I don't know how many of these EDG I's were made and sold. I don't think it was many and it doesn't look like many are left. (If any are left at all.) All I know is that they were a great bargain while they lasted! And my guess is the new ones will sell for less than their competition will sell for now that they have got them the way they want them. Nikons always do.

Bob

Bob,

If everybody could plainly see that the EDG II bridge was larger, I wouldn't have written my detailed post above.

Kevin couldn't see the difference and was giving me "lip" about it, so I decided to give a detailed A/B comparison. If you scroll back a page or two, you'll find that he insisted all that was done to the EDG II was simply removing the bottom bridge and that the reason for the redesign was to drop an ounce in weight.

I couldn't abide by either of those assertions, one that is plainly wrong about the bridge size, and the other about why they did the redesign, which made no sense that Nikon would redesign its top of the line model merely drop an ounce. Now pre-Bailout GM might have done that. :)

American automakers feel they must redesign their models every four years. When Honda moved its design team to California, it caught this contagion, and it now does the same thing with its models.

Continual improvement of the mechanics and electronics in subsequent reissues of the same model makes sense (up to a point, Blue Tooth and OnStar and such should always be optional, I don't want to pay for stuff I don't use). But to change the body design simply because other companies have fallen into this trap of "change for change's sake" is wasteful, IMO.

I had an Olds Cutless Sierra and GM kept the body style mooreless the same for 14 years. They rounded off the back window at some point to lower the drag co-efficient, and they slightly changed the shape of the back lights, but that was about it, externally.

Then some administrator got the bright idea to mess with a good thing and bring out a totally redesigned fancy smantcy ("not your father's Olds") Cutless, and it bombed.

Heck, it was my father's Olds, I gave him my Honda to trade in on a new car! I liked my Honda, it was the most reliable car I ever owned (WAY more reliable than my Saab yuppiemobile), but I needed more leg room and I also fancied a quieter and more comfortable ride.

GM tried to change their customer base overnight and bring the old farts over to Buick, but the "It's not your father's Oldsmobile" campaign was an abysmal failure and the entire Olds brand got dropped from GM's line up.

Back to bins. The bridge redesign and other elements were easy to show, but the reason for the redesign is still a mystery.

Tethered objective covers tend to fall off on a lot of bins, so to me that doesn't seem to be a strong enough reason for a make over, they could have come up with a fix to the covers themselves like making Nikon Bushwackers.

The redesign does address the cover issue and what I fancifully called the "vestigial bridge" (an evolutionary term :) are the "nibs" protruding from the end of the barrels actually kills two stones with one bird by fixing the loose covers problem and also providing a rest stop for the fingers. But that's still not enough reason for a redesign, IMO.

Your idea of it providing more finger space is a more appealing answer, but it has a "bug". As long as your fingers extending beyond the barrels don't interfere with the light path or do not reflect light into the light path, the one bridge design could give you more room, but the fact that there's less room at the top of the open space pushes your hands farther down the barrels because of the longer focuser, so it's a toss up as I see it. Six of one, half a dozen of the other.

Swaro offers both "open bridge" designs, the two bridge EL and the one bridge SLC-HD. Apparently, they didn't think it was necessary to drop the double bridge on the EL, perhaps because they slimmed down the barrels.

In any case, your guess is as good as mine, maybe it was about providing more finger room. We won't know for sure until Nikon tell us why they redesigned the EDG, and don't hold your breath waiting for that answer!

Finally (I hope!): The sample that I tried "freewheeled" too easily, the focuser knob would not stay put in the "all the way down" position. I PMed the owner yesterday who confirmed this. Nikon replaced his original sample with a newer sample that had a functional focuser knob like the one you describe.

But this was not an isolated example. There were other complaints about the same issue, and I have posted links to those before, and I also posted a comment from Mike Freiberg, stating that Nikon was progressively working on the "fix" to that problem.

If you got a good one, thank your lucky stars. And if you bought it during the $999 plus $500 free camera extravaganza, then you kissed the Blarney Stone! :)

If I do buy an EDG, it will be the first model because of the much better price I can get on refurb, old stock, or used sample. But my concern is that I might get one with a tuolouse focuser like Jerry did, and I wonder if Nikon would replace it the way they did his or if I'd be stuck "freehwheelin' forever like Bob Dylan?
 
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What is happening with the EDG is unfortunate, and perhaps necessitated by lawsuit (??? lots of other companies are getting away with open bridges, what's the problem here?)

Ron,

At the risk of reaping cries of derision from Kevin ;-), I was told by my dealer that Swarovski's royalty demands were really quite modest. However, I do not have the faintest idea where modest becomes immodest.
Perhaps they're not concerned about the host of Chinese open bridges, which are not exactly direct competition.

Regards,
John
 
I still prefer the shape of the Venturer/HG/Premier/LX series, so distinctively Nikon, and their best ever design (IMO). To my eyes it's not only elegant but also looks 'hewn from the solid', reassuring, dependable. The EDG certainly appears robust and businesslike, if a little 'swaroesque-chunky', while the EDG II is more svelte with its unique styling, yet not quite as 'balanced' in its looks as the HG/LX. Repeating what someone has already said, why didn't Nikon just upgrade the HG/LX with ED glass? The answer may simply be that the PR/marketing people wanted something 'all new, new, new!' to shout about...
 
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