SE France Sep 18 - Short-toed Eagles batch (1 Viewer)

George Edwards · Sep 19, 2018

20 pics of short-toed eagles. Watching migration yesterday I'd like to double check I'm getting all these Short-toed Eagles right so I can eliminate them from the ids. I know it's a big upload but seems more sensible than creating many threads.

George Edwards · Sep 19, 2018

George Edwards · Sep 19, 2018

11-15

George Edwards · Sep 19, 2018

16-20 / end

Simon Wates · Sep 19, 2018

All Short-toed for me, no doubt

George Edwards · Sep 19, 2018

Excellent, thanks Simon!

Kinthissa · Sep 19, 2018

Beautiful! I'm searching for non-adults. No.3 looks to be the freshest (although a little nicked here and there, a loose shaft between inner Ps to 2nds?). Any chance that this is a juvenile?

I believe juveniles have dark hoods, 2nd cy turn white on their heads ... no.10 seems not to have a dark hood. Any one care to comment?

rosbifs · Sep 19, 2018

My understanding is that juvs have white heads which can stay into their 4th calendar year...

Simon Wates · Sep 19, 2018

Kinthissa said:
I believe juveniles have dark hoods, 2nd cy turn white on their heads ... no.10 seems not to have a dark hood. Any one care to comment?

Interesting, I've been convinced that there are more juv. birds showing pale heads, often looking ghostly on the whole underparts. There are certainly some juv. with rich dark heads but I find they are in the minority.

tconzemi · Sep 19, 2018

Simon Wates said:
Interesting, I've been convinced that there are more juv. birds showing pale heads, often looking ghostly on the whole underparts. There are certainly some juv. with rich dark heads but I find they are in the minority.

my understanding is juveniles having pale to very pale brown-orange heads which bleaches under African sun giving often a whole white head (and body) in second cal year birds and also 3rd or even 4th cy before dark head of adults stay dark

tconzemi · Sep 19, 2018

Kinthissa said:
Beautiful! I'm searching for non-adults. No.3 looks to be the freshest

no 3 has old outer tail feathers and new inner ones so adult too

Kinthissa · Sep 19, 2018

tconzemi said:
no 3 has old outer tail feathers and new inner ones so adult too

Thank you, Tom. How about no. 10? I do not see a dark head on this bird, and obviously it is not a juvenile, so is it a 2nd cy bird?

I'm looking at it having in mind what you said on my recent thread on STEs :
"2nd CY birds identified by mixture of inner moulted primaries broadly tipped white and older and faded outer juvenile primaries"
~ inner primaries look like they could have moulted, not sure about outer primaries (except worn P5). It seems quite a good match for the 2nd cy bird you sent photos of.

tconzemi · Sep 19, 2018

Kinthissa said:
Thank you, Tom. How about no. 10? I do not see a dark head on this bird, and obviously it is not a juvenile, so is it a 2nd cy bird?.

I agree, inner 4 prims new others are juvenile : 2nd cy

Simon Wates · Sep 19, 2018

Thanks Tom, I'm especially interested in juvs, showing dark hoods - they're quite scarce down here on migration and I suspect absent from southern Portugal as siblings from breeding birds. It occurred to me that the dark headed juvs, are maybe from a particular geographical area due to a local trait.

tconzemi · Sep 19, 2018

Simon Wates said:
Thanks Tom, I'm especially interested in juvs, showing dark hoods - they're quite scarce down here on migration and I suspect absent from southern Portugal as siblings from breeding birds. It occurred to me that the dark headed juvs, are maybe from a particular geographical area due to a local trait.

interesting! maybe northern birds from France?

Kinthissa · Sep 19, 2018

Just talking heads (hoods, presence or absence of), from a Hungarian study which illustrates the ages with good photos ~

https://short-toed-eagle.net/wp-content/protected/PDF/GaborPapp-AgingSexing-2015En.pdf (pdf file)

Juveniles :
> - The hood is normally well defined, close to that of an adult female
2nd cy :
> thickness of the hood varies greatly, however, most of the time it is weaker than that of the juveniles or adults. ... The remains of the hood regularly form a ‘necklace’
3rd cy :
> head is darker than that of the previous age group, however, it is not that uniformly brown as in case of adults - the hood is not well defined yet, rather ’necklace’-like

Actually, Tom advised me not to try to identify 3rd cy
> unless outer primaries juvenile in early spring
nor 4th calendar years, so I had better stop here! Complex subject, but may be not as difficult as identifying crakes!

George Edwards · Sep 20, 2018

For interest, here are a few more light ones from yesterday

Thanks for link to Hungarian study - very useful

The one on right of pic 4 I really wasn't sure about - thought it might be an HB but finally decided on STE

Kinthissa · Sep 20, 2018

Good morning!

This is great, thank you for glimpses of migration. From initial glance of amateur eye, you may have a few juvenile candidates. no.2 (right hand bird). no.3, no.5.

no.5 looks minimally marked, fresh edges, and juveniles it seems can have a distinct hood, the Hungarian paper shows an unequivocal juvenile (its plumage), with a clearly defined dark head.

no.1 looks interesting. There is already the dark barring on the flight feathers.

Let's see what the experts say.

SE France Sep 18 - Short-toed Eagles batch (1 Viewer)

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