• Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.

    Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Ultra-compact, cheap, and works with glasses? Is it possible to have all three? (1 Viewer)

D

Dazed & Confused

Member
Hi,

Many years ago I was buying binoculars as a present and the advice I got here was brilliant - they are still being enjoyed to this day. Thank you very much.

Given how great you were, I'm back - but with a rather different requirement this time.

I travel a lot, and am looking for some really compact binoculars that work well when wearing glasses, but on a budget. I currently have some Pentax Papilio 6.5x21 which to me seem excellent, but are just far too big (they don't really fold up at all). Ideally I'd like something that is easily pocketable and very light, even if that means sacrificing a bit of ruggedness.

Can I get something of similar performance to the Papilios, but a lot smaller, and, ideally, cheaper? Everything I find that looks good (e.g. Nikon Sportstar, Hawke Vantage) has terrible eye relief, and the ones that look perfect I can't afford (e.g. Leica Trinovid)!

Although I will use them for birding, they will mainly be general use - like scouting routes on hikes, finding photo opportunities in cities, etc. I don't need a load of magnification (or the ultra close focus of the Papilios), but a wide field of view is nice if I can get it.

I appreciate that 21mm gives a dull image, but my camera will do the main light gathering duties. However holding it up to my eye all the time isn't very convenient!

Thanks!
 
Last edited:
None of the ultra compact binoculars have good eye relief, so we can get that settled right off
the bat. Smaller than the Papillo, no way.

The reverse porros like the Pentax or the Nikon models would be a good place to start.

Cheap limits things, and good small binoculars are not common.

Good luck, with your search.

Jerry
 
Thanks - that's exactly the sort of honest advice I came here for.

Given I cannot get good eye relief in a smaller size than the Papilios, then I might as well stick with them, should I not?
 
Seeing the words "ultra compact" made me think of models like the now discontinued Minolta UC, Canon FC or Opticron Sopera binoculars. Some of these actually work best with spectacles because they have generous eye relief but not extendable eye cups. Try a search on "Sopera" at a certain auction site for an example.
Don't think they would be what you are looking for though if you were hoping for generous apparent FOV :
https://www.manualslib.com/manual/770790/Canon-5x17-Fc.html?page=7
or indeed comfortable extended viewing.
 
The Nikon 5x15 High Grade monocular is very compact and optically excellent. Not sure if it is in your budget (you can get it for $170 or so from Japanese sellers on Amazon, vs. $289 from US resellers).
 
The Minox BD 8x24 double hinge binocular is a possible candidate. It has good eye relief and twist up eye cups. It's optical quality isn't bad and costs only a little more than the Papilios. Size wise it's only slightly larger than the Zeiss and Leica double hinge models that are optically great but very expensive.
 
This is a recent thread on the state of play re. budget compacts :
http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=340405

If the 6.5x Pentax Papilio works OK with your glasses I suspect the Olympus 8x25 WP II and Kowa 8x25 SV would have sufficient eye relief for your requirements. If you need more there's an Amazon Warehouse deal on the Pentax 8x25 AD which would keep things on budget. None of these budget roof prism models are likely to be optically first rate, have attractive apparent fov or be great for extended use (which no doubt is why in that thread there are so many suggestions for a move up in objective size |;|) but may suffice for the use you describe. Since the time of your last visit here some level of phase coating and reasonably spectacle friendly eyepieces have become more common under £100. Maybe time to hit the roads of Bristol (assuming you are still based there) to see what's what |=)|
 
The Minolta UC is nice in its display box, but pretty useless to look through.
I have the Sopera. I'll see if I can find it.
I don't have the Canon.

I'd go for a good modern offering.
Trying out in a shop is best.
 
Hi Binastro. I think all these models had at least a couple of versions. I bought the 5-15x17 Sopera a while back when it was on some sort of close out; quite the educational tool regarding how apparent fov, magnification, eye relief and exit pupil all changed through the magnification range. At 5x it had enough eye relief for me to see the full (admittedly insubstantial) field. Same for the Canon 5x17 I have which, being phase coated is probably a step up. On the other hand the Pentax 6.5x Papilio doesn't work for me at all well with glasses.
Possibly over in the States there are similar "ultra compact" models under the Vixen brand still available.

Agree they are a bit of a specialist item and with lack of adjustment of individual dioptre setting, eyecup distance and limited range of ipd (along with the general fiddliness of compacts) there's probably a much greater chance of a poor fit rather than a good one.
 
Last edited:
Thanks everyone, this is really helpful.

I'm not really sure how to test eye-relief, but on my Papilios I can clearly see the sharply defined circumference of the imaging circle with my glasses on. I see no more if I take my glasses off and extend the eye cups. I assume that means that its eye relief of 15mm is plenty for me?

With that in mind I've been looking at some of your suggestions, and while they seem to be not significantly lighter, the 8x25s have a double hinge, which I assume will make them fold at least a bit smaller than the Papilios.

The opera glasses seem like they might simply be too compromised, especially as they are also older desig

normjackson suggested these Pentax ones: http://www.birdforum.net/reviews/showproduct.php/product/509/cat/10

They seem to have a whopping eye relief of 21mm (which I now appreciate I may not need), but are actually minutely heavier than what I have now. Would that extra eye relief show an appreciable improvement over my Papilios?

Looking at the lighter Olympus and Kowas suggested too, I get the impression I'm not going to save much weight, and quite possibly not that much size either. I might just stick with what I've got, unless they seem much smaller in the flesh.

I need to try and find a place that stocks a good selection and see how small they really are. Unfortunately I cannot for the life of me remember where I went 10 years ago!

Thanks again, everyone!
 
Last edited:
Looks like the eye relief on the Papilio is fine for you. Unfortunately written specs for eye relief are notoriously unreliable so the 15mm figure may not be confidently transferred to another model or manufacturer.

Yep the main advantage of a compact roof prism model is typically the size they can collapse to in a pocket rather than weight.

The Pentax Papilio is definitely a bit on the chunky side for a reverse porro with only 21mm objectives. But if you definitely don't need smaller...

Well, Bristol Cameras is still going; maybe they could get a Pentax 8x25 AD in stock for you to look at.
 
Thanks - I didn't appreciate that about eye relief measurements.

I know Bristol Cameras have a new showroom, so I'll check it out next time I'm getting some film developed. Maybe they'll stock the Olympus and Kowas too.

I really do need smaller - it's often a case of having to leave the Papilios behind otherwise. My concern is that on my budget I cannot get anything significantly smaller enough to make a useful difference.

Many thanks for all your help.
 
Any double-hinged 8x or 10x25 pocket roof will be half the bulk or less of the Papilio. A number of mid-priced models offer 15+ mm eye relief. The trick is to find one that is optically worth a darn.

--AP
 
Alexis Powell said:
Any double-hinged 8x or 10x25 pocket roof will be half the bulk or less of the Papilio. A number of mid-priced models offer 15+ mm eye relief. The trick is to find one that is optically worth a darn.

--AP
Click to expand...

D&C,

Agree with Alexis. A good double hinge 8X, like the Zeiss Terra ED 8x25, although 2X your budget, could be a "near perfect" pocket binocular that ticks most of your boxes for optical quality, good ER and compactness! I'll be reviewing mine, along with the Nikon Trailblazer ATB 8x25, this coming weekend.

Ted
 
perterra said:
The Pentax 8X25 has a 21mm eye relief, B&H has them at $86 and change.
Click to expand...
That's a bit cruel ;) The OP's local camera retailer has them for £105 delivered which represents a pretty good deal here.
Am guessing Minox BD 8x24 recommended above is round about same level as Pentax (?); it is a bit more expensive in UK though. The Bushnell Alexis recommends is about £170 or so; about same as Hawke Sapphire ED 8x25.

I guess the monocular suggestion didn't appeal to the OP but for tiny take anywhere magnification it has its devotees eg.
http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=309829
Found a nice picture of the Nikon 5x15 binocular, though that (if you could find one) would presumably cost as much as those 8x20 top Euro models. The Pentax FB-8 is probably another Binastro remembers. Not sure what that monster in the middle of the picture is though...
https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/20638-poll-how-many-binoculars-do-you-own/page-6#entry1478173

Look forward to your review Ted.
 
Maybe this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Carson-Op...457044?hash=item28293b7fd4:g:wR0AAOSwQupXWXDb

but there is also a Pracktica version http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PRAKTICA-...895189?hash=item2a7cf285d5:g:3S0AAOSwuxFYw3d3

I have the Papilio 6.5x and I also use a Pentax 8x20 DCF ED folder often but I had been considering one of the above for the purpose you mention though I don't wear glasses so don't need large eyerelief but they seem to have 15mm eyerelief. The Praktica maybe has slightly different coatings or something over the Carson. I have a couple of Carson Scout reverse porros that I like for good weather but I think that the FR would be better optically and has more eye relief and you don't need to fold it plus its wide angle and should be quite bright also.
 
Warning! This thread is more than 7 years ago old.
It's likely that no further discussion is required, in which case we recommend starting a new thread. If however you feel your response is required you can still do so.

Similar threads

G
Looking for pocket sized qualiti bino.
2 3
Replies
41
Views
4K
mwhogue
M
N
Advice: Not too expensive toss in the pocket/bag compact binoculars?
2 3
Replies
49
Views
6K
julay
J
L
Upgrade to mid-range price binoculars
2
Replies
26
Views
3K
Rufus1401
R
dwatsonbirder
Compact comparisons: Low end vs high end
2
Replies
32
Views
4K
Rg548
R
A
Entry - Midrange Binocular Recommendation ($500)
2
Replies
22
Views
2K
Binovehje
B

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 2 (members: 0, guests: 2)
Back
Top