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Suppression vs reporting; birders’ obligations during lockdown. (1 Viewer)

But it's not just about you.

People will drive to a rarity (many won't but some will).

But no part of the blame for somebody driving to see a rarity should be attributed to the person putting the news out, it is 100% the fault of the person who choose to act on that news.

I completely agree with temmie, I would happily put news out if I find something scarce in the next few weeks, as that allows any birders within 10km or so to legitimately walk or cycle to see the bird themselves. If anybody from further afield decides to break the rules and drive to see the bird, that is completely their own decision and I won't feel any guilt for any fines etc that they get imposed with.
 
But no part of the blame for somebody driving to see a rarity should be attributed to the person putting the news out, it is 100% the fault of the person who choose to act on that news.

I completely agree with temmie, I would happily put news out if I find something scarce in the next few weeks, as that allows any birders within 10km or so to legitimately walk or cycle to see the bird themselves. If anybody from further afield decides to break the rules and drive to see the bird, that is completely their own decision and I won't feel any guilt for any fines etc that they get imposed with.

No sense of moral responsibility at all? People are dying ... not as a result of twitches perhaps, but the whole thing is interconnected (sounds melodramatic I know.)

The government handling of the whole thing has been woeful overall, and indeed the police haven't helped.

Take Ringouzelgate ... then move onto a bigger twitch at which a number of birders get caught (whether highly local or not) and it hits the headlines (which it quite likely would), and everyone gets tarred with the same brush ...
 
But no part of the blame for somebody driving to see a rarity should be attributed to the person putting the news out, it is 100% the fault of the person who choose to act on that news.

I completely agree with temmie, I would happily put news out if I find something scarce in the next few weeks, as that allows any birders within 10km or so to legitimately walk or cycle to see the bird themselves. If anybody from further afield decides to break the rules and drive to see the bird, that is completely their own decision and I won't feel any guilt for any fines etc that they get imposed with.

I entirely agree with this position. People should stop imagining themselves being responsible for things they are not, and that doesn't just apply to the current situation: conversely nobody at all should imagine that they are not ultimately responsible for their own actions. It is ridiculous to suggest that people are "encouraged" to break the rules - indeed, it's that kind of talk that legitimises them, not putting news out.

John
 
Take Ringouzelgate ...

Only you could come up with that Dan 3:)

As for ‘suppression’, in the current climate, my moral obligations lie with the wider needs of society not a ‘minority’ group within it (the old utilitarian argument - what produces the greatest good for the greatest number). I see no harm in putting out flyovers - everything else I would submit to RBA and let them decide (since they already have adopted a public interest position on this). By submitting rarities in this manner (as confidential report), the record will still find its way into the books even if not onto anyone else’s list - likewise other people’s rarities will stay off mine. There are however, a few very local professional birder colleagues/friends that I count on one hand, whom I would absolutely trust, that I would inform, knowing their responsible attitude to such matters and that the news would go no further.

On a lighter note, don’t we have a responsibility not to tempt addicts nor enable their addictions? ;)
 
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I'd bet that a good number of reports are by people who are flouting the government guidelines anyway, by being in a place to find a rarity?
 
I'd bet that a good number of reports are by people who are flouting the government guidelines anyway, by being in a place to find a rarity?

Nothing to suggest that so far from the 3 rarities found in the last couple of days. Both the Iberian Chiffchaff (Dorset) and American Herring Gull (Cornwall) were found by birders on their daily walks from their homes, whilst the Short-Toed Treecreeper (Dungeness) was found (or re-found) by the obs staff.
 
Nothing to suggest that so far from the 3 rarities found in the last couple of days. Both the Iberian Chiffchaff (Dorset) and American Herring Gull (Cornwall) were found by birders on their daily walks from their homes, whilst the Short-Toed Treecreeper (Dungeness) was found (or re-found) by the obs staff.

Well it depends. On the gull one would assume that you'd have to study it for a while to make sure it was the real deal. As fishing has been deemed inappropriate, and people have been condemned for sitting on park benches, there's an argument. There's certainly messages on other birds that clearly require effort beyond one's daily exercise, and involve the use of hides.

I was surprised Matt Hancock gave the green light on BBC Question Time for people to drive short distances, and then exercise or walk the dog. The question then is what's short? As a community that thinks nothing of nipping up to Shetland, our short might not be the same as others'.

It did hit home even more as I watched the later documentary on Bergamo, where there's complete lock down. With Easter looming, and better weather, I just hope he's called this one right. His message about maintaining social distancing was clear enough, but surely potential for some beauty spot chaos.

My friend lives in Fairburn village and says currently it's a nightmare with outsiders still arriving, and that's with no special bird there.

I think this year is a write-off for me; I don't live near anywhere decent. I think off-shore travel will be a non-starter even by September/October, so that's pretty much it.

Just got to tough it out but I do think putting news out, (rightly or wrongly) will do damage as not every birder will comply with guidelines, especially ones open to interpretation.
 
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Well it depends. On the gull one would assume that you'd have to study it for a while to make sure it was the real deal. As fishing has been deemed inappropriate, and people have been condemned for sitting on park benches, there's an argument.

I was surprised Matt Hancock gave the green light on BBC Question Time for people to drive short distances, and then exercise or walk the dog. The question then is what's short? As a community that thinks nothing of nipping up to Shetland, our short might not be the same as others'.

Just got to tough it out but I do think putting news out, (rightly or wrongly) will do damage as not every birder will comply with guidelines, especially ones open to interpretation.

I think it's only fair to also say, in exactly the same generalisation fashion as above, that the police have been "condemned" for being heavy-handed and downright stupid, including for moving on people maintaining social distancing while sitting on park benches (one was moved on while having a glass of prosecco while alone on a bench, and you really have to suspect that the copper in question simply didn't like the idea of someone having even that much fun!) and for setting up inappropriate road blocks.

And as for fishing being deemed inappropriate, I've heard it suggested by official sources that nobody should be on e.g. canal towpaths, as they aren't wide enough to social distance effectively. Without commenting too much on the width of towpaths, that effectively knocks out inland angling: but what would you say about the beach anglers who space themselves out yards and yards from each other? There's nothing wrong or unsafe with being in the open a safe distance from everyone else. The difficulty is achieving that in towns and cities, and since that's where most of the population is, that distorts the mental model in officialdom of what's possible: a mental model that for any situation prefers one size fits all, and not only is that never true but sometimes one size doesn't fit anybody. Matt Hancock must be one of the few people in government smart enough to realise that.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not advocating long-distance twitching or removing the current lockdown. But clarifications like "yes you can use your car to reach your patch" are helpful, not dangerous. I've been out of the house and garden once in a fortnight, to go shopping, and I'm still resisting the temptation: but I can actually go on doing so for longer with the knowledge that the safety valve is there when I really need it.

John
 
The thing is, during a pandemic, the actions of going to twitch a bird may not affect the twitcher, but could influence others:

A) Part of the stay close at home order is as much about minimizing accidents or car failures, which can then potentially put extra stress on medical staff

B) Increasing spread of disease. Twitcher A is asymptomatic for Covid, Twitcher B doesn't have it. They run into each other while looking for a rare bird, and have a brief chat. Twitcher B gets Covid, but shows no symptoms for several days. During that time period he goes grocery shopping, exposing other folks who had no choice to be out and about.

I mean in a perfect world, if you could guarantee not to run or chat with anyone, the activity should be fine. But people forget, and in some cases, if 20 random folks all decide they want to see the bird and viewing locations are limited in space, it's going to be hard to maintain social distance.

On a related note...the ABA rare bird alert just reported that I believe Ohio? had it's first record of Hooded Oriole, coming into a feeder. However the location is being suppressed as the owner is worried about Covid.
 
Warm weather forecast for the weekend, with Southerlies and South Easterlies, rest assured there will be birders out and about thinking, " I'm not doing any harm , in a remote place, away from other people". There will be a few people ignoring the general advice and also straying outdoors. Call it what you wish or dress it up as deemed appropriate - it's your choice. Interestingly, no BF members have posted that they have the symptoms, thankfully some reassuring news.
 
Incidentally, it came to me while out in the garden how long the government now thinks you can drive to exercise: simples! It's Hancock's Half Hour.

(Please understand that is not a serious suggestion!)

John
 
B) Increasing spread of disease. Twitcher A is asymptomatic for Covid, Twitcher B doesn't have it. They run into each other while looking for a rare bird, and have a brief chat. Twitcher B gets Covid, but shows no symptoms for several days. During that time period he goes grocery shopping, exposing other folks who had no choice to be out and about.
And additionally, Twitcher A is from a town with a major outbreak, and travelled 100 km west to see the rarity, while Twitcher B is from a town with no outbreak yet, and travelled 100 km east to see the rarity. Suddenly, and unexpectedly, the virus has spread 200 km to a new area . . .
 
I have to agree that suppression is, on principal, always a bad thing. There are very few cases of suppression having been arguably warranted in the past relative to the number of ridiculous controversies that small minded suppression HAS absolutely caused.

But I understand that it might be a better choice in some rare situations. At the moment, if I were to find a genuinely noteworthy rarity in the yard or along the quiet street where I am (at my mother's in southern California), I would have no qualms sharing information about the existence of the bird but I would decidedly NOT share the location.

All of my friends in the US, and several family members in the US as well, are dealing with people in their personal circles and frequently households that refuse to respect the stay at home orders, that are going about their lives as if nothing were happening, not observing social distancing, etc. In many cases putting many other people at risk beyond themselves. I personally don't know the birding community here well enough to know how responsible they would be. I would hope they would be responsible, but if I use a cross section of Americans as a proxy, my faith declines.
 
If a real mega turned up , especially one not requiring boats or planes to reach , don't you reckon the plods would be all over it within minutes ? Surely at least some of them are aware of what might ensue ?
As an aside , if that evening grosbeak turns up on my feeders, I will not be inviting the world to tramp about my house and garden !!
 
I have to admit that while I've been out the thought of "what would I do if I found a mega?" has occurred to me. I think I'd probably suppress it, but make sure I let the "authorities" know.

Would I travel to a mega? No, I don't think so. I've been making sure that I've been going to birding sites where there's not even a single car parked. If people are out cycling, jogging, etc. - i.e. exhaling more frequently than "normal" - I want to be nowhere near them, never mind as close as 2m.
 
That's all very well for you Paul but we don't all have a Butler to do the shopping........;)

It's those regional variations I keep forgetting. :king: (Thankfully, we are spoilt for supermarkets & have one locally open to 10pm.)

Andy - Keep safe & keep the family safe.
 
It's those regional variations I keep forgetting. :king: (Thankfully, we are spoilt for supermarkets & have one locally open to 10pm.)

Andy - Keep safe & keep the family safe.

Cheers Paul, you too.

Btw, got the two AG Duff volumes, superb, pass on my compliments.
 
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