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Raptors, Chile (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter rylirk
- Start date
RafaelMatias
Unknown member
#1 Harris's Hawk
#3 Harris's Hawk
#2 could be one, but wing shape looks odd. Where in Santiago region did you see it.
#3 Harris's Hawk
#2 could be one, but wing shape looks odd. Where in Santiago region did you see it.
RafaelMatias
Unknown member
So, not a Black-Chested Buzzard-Eagle (if all 3 photos are of the same bird). My best guess is an immature Variable Hawk, but I'm less than confident on this.
RafaelMatias
Unknown member
I can see where you're coming from with this suggestion, but structurally this looks to my eye a more robust bird, without the agile and delicate appearance of a Chimango. Note the broad base to the tail, the apparent bulk, the bill robustness; but it could well be one with these aspects I mentioned being the result of the angle (with resulting foreshortening); plumage wise seems fine for one, I only have a problem with structure.
If #2 is the same bird as on the 2 additional photos (on post #3) then it cannot be a Chimango (note again the broad tail base, which is also too short for that species, the pale throat contrasting with darker neck/upper breast sides, some flank and belly spotting, etc).
Rylirk, is there any chance these are 2 different birds? Chimangos are pretty much everywhere and it would be easy to take a photo of one while another raptor crosses the sky...
pbjosh
missing the neotropics
#2 is definitely not a Variable Hawk / BC Buzzard-Eagle - wing shape and structure are way off.
I would say it very much looks like a Caracara of some sort to me. My first impression, particularly for the later photos, is Chimango. Just looking briefly and have not confirmed what is expected at that location.
I would say it very much looks like a Caracara of some sort to me. My first impression, particularly for the later photos, is Chimango. Just looking briefly and have not confirmed what is expected at that location.
RafaelMatias
Unknown member
That's what I think for Chimango :smoke:
I'm attaching 3 more or less radical treatments of one of the photos, and on all 3 (and also on the original image) the following features are visible that are at odds with a Chimango:
- pale eyes (dark in Chimango and any caracara)
- "white" throat well contrasting with darker areas
- structural features, especially the wide hips/broad tail base, short tail, etc
here's some images of Chimangos in flight: https://images.app.goo.gl/t4xX8H5VhfYgUgR59
https://www.flickr.com/photos/celiaurora/45234476264
Attachments
pbjosh
missing the neotropics
I've just taken a bit more of a look at the photos. I do not see pale eyes in this bird, in any of the photos, but that's not the most important argument. In Santiago the most common birds would be Chimango and Harris's Hawk, less commonly Variable Hawk and BC Buzzard-Eagle. Mountain Caracara is pretty rare within the city proper.
I agree it's awfully hefty looking and coloration is poor for a Chimango. Coloration and structure are better fits for a juvenile Mountain Caracara, or a Harris's Hawk. Mtn Caracara is less likely based on location and the pale throat looks problematic. I will still say there's no way it's a Variable Hawk or BC Buzzard-Eagle. Both those species have huge secondary bulges and a very particular wing shape that is quite pointed in the primaries.
I haven't really really looked at this a ton, and it still gives a Caracara jizz, but I think on the combination of factors a juvenile Harris's Hawk is more likely. That lack of secondary bulge in the wing, though, really does throw you off.
I agree it's awfully hefty looking and coloration is poor for a Chimango. Coloration and structure are better fits for a juvenile Mountain Caracara, or a Harris's Hawk. Mtn Caracara is less likely based on location and the pale throat looks problematic. I will still say there's no way it's a Variable Hawk or BC Buzzard-Eagle. Both those species have huge secondary bulges and a very particular wing shape that is quite pointed in the primaries.
I haven't really really looked at this a ton, and it still gives a Caracara jizz, but I think on the combination of factors a juvenile Harris's Hawk is more likely. That lack of secondary bulge in the wing, though, really does throw you off.
RafaelMatias
Unknown member
The eye, on the attached montage, painted on the left part of the image to highlight what I can see on the unmodified photo...
Mountain Caracara is rare within Santiago, although it occurs on the nearby elevations. Serro San Cristobal is basically an urban area, but it still could eventually occur there. The biggest problem is that plumage wise this raptor does not resemble at all a Mountain Cararaca. Here's an immature: https://macaulaylibrary.org/asset/60163491
Also, how to explain the plumage features visible on this bird: the white throat and darker adjacent neck and upper chest? Can these be reconciled with Harris's Hawk? I can't see it.
Attachments
Last edited:
pbjosh
missing the neotropics
As far as the eye goes I still wouldn't make any decisions based on that, it could be a reflection of light off the eye or a photo artifact.
As far as coloration goes, juvenile Harris's Hawks are regionally very variable. In the southern cone they frequently have a dark(ish) head with a pale throat. Here are some examples:
https://macaulaylibrary.org/asset/210052381
https://macaulaylibrary.org/asset/199239781
https://macaulaylibrary.org/asset/202212191
Now my third look at this bird, I'm quite convinced of juvenile Harris's Hawk. It appears bit chunky but not out of the range of possibilities at all, and doesn't have a strong secondary bulge but this is the best fit to my eye.
As far as coloration goes, juvenile Harris's Hawks are regionally very variable. In the southern cone they frequently have a dark(ish) head with a pale throat. Here are some examples:
https://macaulaylibrary.org/asset/210052381
https://macaulaylibrary.org/asset/199239781
https://macaulaylibrary.org/asset/202212191
Now my third look at this bird, I'm quite convinced of juvenile Harris's Hawk. It appears bit chunky but not out of the range of possibilities at all, and doesn't have a strong secondary bulge but this is the best fit to my eye.
RafaelMatias
Unknown member
I think you're right, it's a very good fit plumage wise.
Regarding the "eye", there may be an answer in one the photos you posted above, this one: https://macaulaylibrary.org/asset/210052381. Note the round dark spot on the yellow lores... Such a dark spot could easily be transformed "into an eye" through photo artifacts (and I think that may be what I'm seeing as an "eye" on the OP photo).
Birds in Chile are usually very easy to ID, because there are so few species compared to other places. But this one I found more difficult, perhaps due to photo quality and for not being used to see those birds for a long time now (it's more surprising to me in this case, because I do know the Santiago area and its birds quite well... or perhaps used to?
).
So, all raptors Harris's Hawks to me now.
Regarding the "eye", there may be an answer in one the photos you posted above, this one: https://macaulaylibrary.org/asset/210052381. Note the round dark spot on the yellow lores... Such a dark spot could easily be transformed "into an eye" through photo artifacts (and I think that may be what I'm seeing as an "eye" on the OP photo).
Birds in Chile are usually very easy to ID, because there are so few species compared to other places. But this one I found more difficult, perhaps due to photo quality and for not being used to see those birds for a long time now (it's more surprising to me in this case, because I do know the Santiago area and its birds quite well... or perhaps used to?
).So, all raptors Harris's Hawks to me now.
rylirk
Well-known member
That's a shame then :'( Honestly I'm quite surprised; the mystery bird did seem much larger/lankier in the field than the Harris' Hawks. In particular, the Harris Hawk in photo #3 was taken about 10 seconds after photo #2; while I appreicate size in the air is difficult, I definitely got the impression that #2 was a larger bird.
C'est la vie! I bow to the expertise.
C'est la vie! I bow to the expertise.
