I have wondered if the term "common " gull stems from a long time ago when when winter plumaged black headed gulls were not seperated from other small gulls inland. But at least common gull is a reconisable name unlike one local bird report that insists in calling them Mew gulls.
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Common Gull - origin of name (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Stoggler
- Start date
And, since "mew" is simply an old word for "gull", "Mew Gull" means "Gull Gull", yet another testimony to the "ordinariness" with which the species has been regarded.
JTweedie
Well-known member
Sounds a bit like Cygnus cygnus - i.e. swan swan.
redeyedvideo
It's like water off a duck's back!
Pheasant farmers? Not a new practice then?
I believe the book was previously titled All the Birds of the Air which is available on http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-listing/0233970371/ref=dp_olp_all_mbc?ie=UTF8&condition=all for £2.52 delivered! It's a great read from what I remember.
MJB
Well-known member
Since no-one else has attempted to answer the other aspect of Stoggler's question:
"gull (1)
Shore bird, early 15c. (in a cook book), probably from Brythonic Celtic, cf. Welsh gwylan "gull," Cornish guilan, Breton goelann; all from O.Celt. *voilenno. Replaced O.E. mæw (see mew (n.1)).
gull (2)
Cant term for "dupe, sucker, credulous person," 1590s, of uncertain origin. Perhaps from verb meaning "to dupe, cheat" (1540s), earlier "to swallow" (1520s), ultimately from gull "throat, gullet" (early 15c.). Or it is perhaps from (or influenced by) the bird? In either case with a sense of "someone who will swallow anything thrown at him." Another possibility is M.E. dial. gull "newly hatched bird" (late 14c.), which is perhaps from O.N. golr "yellow," from the hue of its down." :-O
MJB
With grateful acknowledgement to Online Etymology Dictionary, a very useful source
lazza
Well-known member
I like the idea of pheasant farmers...
Steve Dudley
aka The Toadsnatcher
I think in the majority of cases the name 'common' does refer to abundance or familiarity. Just that in this instance it doesn't. And I cant remember my original references for this. I researched the name 15+ years ago and found several medieval/historical texts referring to this being the gull of common land. but someone has already given Dave Okill's reference earlier, but Dave doesn't give a reference for his statement.
I think when we discuss the origins of bird names we have to consider them in a historical context, particularly for common or familiar species. Historically birds will have been known by different local communities by different names. Some of these might be very similar, some may be very different. Such historical (and I'm talking 400 years plus here) names can have their origins in appearance, sound, habitat, abundance, familiarity, affection, with reference to other species (e.g. pliver's page for Dunlin), lore and legend. For example, Wren Troglodytes troglodytes has 164 known vernacular names (here's a selection to show just how divers these are -jenny-squit, jenny-cruddle, jenny, jenny-wren, jenny-wran, jinny-wren, Loughgilly, jinny-ran, jinny-wranl, jennywaren, jenner-hen, giller-wren, gilliver-wren, julliver-wren, kitty, kitty-wren, kitty-raan, kitty-tope, katie-wren, kitty-me-wren, brown kitty, brown kittywren, kitty-tope, nantit, nanny-fudger, peggy, sally, bob-wren, bobby-wren, robbie-cuddy, stumpy-dick, joe-cutt, joey-cutty, tommy-liden, tom-in-the-wall, tomtit, thomas-gierdet - thanks to Andy Gosler, EGI Oxford, who happen to present on this last week at the BOU annual conference and whose list of Wren names I therefore had to hand to sue here rather than having to compile it myself!).
It is only as people began to travel more that bird names began to stabilize/standardize as bird names were exchanged and some stuck and others receded in use, and it was only with the publication of the first texts that some names really began to take precedence over other names nationally. The first real text for this was A History of Birds (1815, Anon) which listed 64 'standard' vernacular names. The poet John Clare added 75 to this initial list. Yarrell's A History of British Birds (1871-85) picked up the thread and accepted only 33 of 64 of the list from 1815 (seemingly ignoring Clare - presumably cos he was seen as a fancy and poet rather than a serious naturalist by the established naturalists of the day), to which Alfred Newton (founder of the BOU) added another 80 species for his revision of Yarrell (again, my thanks to Andy Gosler for this summary which I have to hand).
You can see by the dates involved that the adoption of national level, rather then local/regional level, vernacular names took a long time to get going and an age for names to become adopted and it wasn't really until Victorian times onwards, when books became much more commonplace, that national level vernacular names really started to take hold and became the names which reached the field guides from the 1950 onwards and became the names we all are familiar with today.
The next step was then the globalization of bird names leading to the IOC's international standard English names which commenced in the 1980s and eventually lead to the website 'IOC World Bird Names' in 2009. These are complementary to vernacular names and do not place them at the local (national/regional) level but have helped to cement some newer vernacular names.
Steve Dudley
aka The Toadsnatcher
;-)
They do exist tho - I have several farmers near me here in the fens farming thousand of pheasants for release each year (and there not released for me to look at either)
Wow! Thanks for an excellent post Steve. As someone with a interest in etymology in general, that was really informative.
I had always assumed that names for birds varies over geography and time, and wondered whether the Common Gull's name came about as a result of variance of usage in the past.
Perhaps worthy of a new thread, but my original poser about the Common Gull has got me wondering about how common or otherwise species have been in the past. Collared Dove status change is well known, and most people know of the change in populations of raptors in recent decades. But I wonder how other species of birds' populations have changed over time with changing prevailing climatic conditions, urbanisation and land use.
Thanks very much for that Steve. 'Fraid I'll need to read it a few more times to really understand it all.
Where I'd been coming from was linking the thousands of birds in Opus and not being able to 'guess' whether they were European, Eurasian or Common which made me (eventually) think that Common had a wider spread.
Am I right in thinking (I may well not be LOL) that some of the new splits have been named Common?
As I said, I'll need to read your post a few more times.
D
Where I'd been coming from was linking the thousands of birds in Opus and not being able to 'guess' whether they were European, Eurasian or Common which made me (eventually) think that Common had a wider spread.
Am I right in thinking (I may well not be LOL) that some of the new splits have been named Common?
As I said, I'll need to read your post a few more times.
D
Steve Dudley
aka The Toadsnatcher
As far as I know, those naming new splits avoid 'common' as an identifier for obvious reasons and thats why we are seeing a proliferation of Eurasian, European, etc.
As an example, BOU was recently asked about Wren Troglodytes troglodytes as Winter Wren is now split and the American's are retaining Winter Wren for Troglodytes hiemalis, so our Wren needed a new internaional identify. Some suggested we use Jenny Wren because it was a widely used historical name (and still well known) but that is only at the British level, so to avoid Common Wren (which is isnt throughout the world), we had to recommend Eurasian since this is a widely accepted identifier and the meaning of which is obvious.
As an example, BOU was recently asked about Wren Troglodytes troglodytes as Winter Wren is now split and the American's are retaining Winter Wren for Troglodytes hiemalis, so our Wren needed a new internaional identify. Some suggested we use Jenny Wren because it was a widely used historical name (and still well known) but that is only at the British level, so to avoid Common Wren (which is isnt throughout the world), we had to recommend Eurasian since this is a widely accepted identifier and the meaning of which is obvious.
Steve Dudley
aka The Toadsnatcher
The change in populations, at UK level, are well known and plenty of information online via BTO website (I think the section is called BirdFacts or similar). Annual BTO, RSPB, and others also publish 'The State of the UK's Birds'. Again, this should be available on the BTO website. Not sure if there is anything available online for European population trends. I'm sure there is for the US.
Tiraya
San Diego CA
I was told the term "mew" was a reference to its cat-like call. And I do find it quite cat-like...a coincidence?
Yes, I should think so, since in English "mew" originally meant any gull, not Larus canus specifically. The same is true if I'm not mistaken of its cognates in German & other modern Germanic languages which also just mean "gull".
But, an interesting point, which maybe helps explain why the name "Mew" got reattached to the North American version of the species, supplanting the older "Short-billed Gull".
I just checked the big Sibley (p.212), BTW, which describes the call as "less harsh & more mewing" than the Ring-billed call.
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Richard Klim
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Yes, as discussed on another recent thread, Dutch for Gull is Meeuw, and German is Möwe.
MJB
Well-known member
Richard,
An apt and timely post as always, conforming with that old theatrical advice to 'leave them wanting Möwe'...o
MJB
stevethehydra
Well-known member
I've heard both the "common land" explanation and the "common" meaning "generic/featureless" one... the latter was the one that occurred independently to me, as they are sort of "in the middle" of all the other... "commonly occurring" gulls in terms of appearance, with no real feature to distinguish them. They actually do seem to be common around the North Cheshire/South Manchester area though (probably second in numbers to Black-headed, with LBB and Herring a fairly distant third and fourth), which is a contrast to most inland areas further south, where anything other than a Black-headed is unusual away from lakes/reservoirs...
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