Caterpillar, in November? (1 Viewer)

Today, as I was looking out of my kitchen window, I noticed a small caterpillar hanging by a silken thread from a windchime which is screwed to the wooden batten above the window.
It was definately a caterpillar, not a coccoon or what have you, but whilst I appreciate that it may not be a caterpillar of the lepidopterae, it still puzzled me what it was doing wriggling about in late November.
It was about 1cm long, very similar to the winter moth 'loopers' we see in late spring/early summer, only perhaps a little duller in colour.
Any ideas?

No idea Rog....but a big hello again from me!!!

Where you bin???

Dave.

p.s. I say boy, the future is not as good as it used to be....

"Inchworm, inchworm" etc............

Lots still around here Rog tho they're mostly short fat and hairy.

A big hello from me too and nice to see you both in the 'buggy' area where I lurk!!

Jen

rogerk said:

Today, as I was looking out of my kitchen window, I noticed a small caterpillar hanging by a silken thread from a windchime which is screwed to the wooden batten above the window.
It was definately a caterpillar, not a coccoon or what have you, but whilst I appreciate that it may not be a caterpillar of the lepidopterae, it still puzzled me what it was doing wriggling about in late November.
It was about 1cm long, very similar to the winter moth 'loopers' we see in late spring/early summer, only perhaps a little duller in colour.
Any ideas?

Click to expand...

Nice to have the chance to debunk a little myth here. Lepidoptera (butterflies and moths) may survive the winter at ANY stage of the life cycle, depending on the species. Some, such as Red Admiral or Herald, may hibernate as adults, some survive as caterpillars (often entering diapause, a sort of temporary hibernation, during the coldest periods, but usually feeding on and off), a small number overwinter as eggs (some of the hairstreak butterflies, I think). Only a minority overwinter as a pupa (and not all of these in a cocoon which, strictly speaking, is a silken case spun around the pupa).

The 'moths overwinter as cocoons' myth I have seen repeated in several textbooks, although not specilaised biology texts.

No idea what it is though!!

Mike Pennington said:

Nice to have the chance to debunk a little myth here. Lepidoptera (butterflies and moths) may survive the winter at ANY stage of the life cycle, depending on the species. Some, such as Red Admiral or Herald, may hibernate as adults, some survive as caterpillars (often entering diapause, a sort of temporary hibernation, during the coldest periods, but usually feeding on and off), a small number overwinter as eggs (some of the hairstreak butterflies, I think). Only a minority overwinter as a pupa (and not all of these in a cocoon which, strictly speaking, is a silken case spun around the pupa).

The 'moths overwinter as cocoons' myth I have seen repeated in several textbooks, although not specilaised biology texts.

No idea what it is though!!

Click to expand...

Thanks for that, Mike. I appreciate that Lepidoptera overwinter in various stages, though I didn't know that they did it as caterpillars. What do they eat? I know that some species have some very specific food plants which just aren't around in winter, how do they get on? If they went into some form of stasis, vis-a-vis hibernation/season's end type of thing, then I could see it.
I'm still confused.
|=(|

rogerk said:

Thanks for that, Mike. I appreciate that Lepidoptera overwinter in various stages, though I didn't know that they did it as caterpillars. What do they eat? I know that some species have some very specific food plants which just aren't around in winter, how do they get on? If they went into some form of stasis, vis-a-vis hibernation/season's end type of thing, then I could see it.
I'm still confused.
|=(|

Click to expand...

Presumably larvae that have evolved to eat certain plants (not necessarily just leaves) have also evolved to be active when those plants are available. Some, such as oak eggar, eat leaves that are always available (bramble and privet) so if they wake up in the middle of winter feeling peckish they can have a nibble.
Ken

rogerk said:

Thanks for that, Mike. I appreciate that Lepidoptera overwinter in various stages, though I didn't know that they did it as caterpillars. What do they eat? I know that some species have some very specific food plants which just aren't around in winter, how do they get on? If they went into some form of stasis, vis-a-vis hibernation/season's end type of thing, then I could see it.
I'm still confused.
|=(|

Click to expand...

As implied by Surreybirder, the overwintering larvae tend to be generalists which, to paraphrase Roger Tory Peterson, 'eat most any kind of leaf'. I think Ingrailed Clay overwinters as a larva as it will eat anything. The same with species that eat roots, such as swifts. The larvae which hibernate often do so completely out of sight e.g. underground or inside plants, but even those that are above ground will hide during hibernation. Most larvae only feed at night as well, so they are hard to find.

Any very host-specific larvae would not use such a strategy, as they need their food to be around. It is why Brown Hairstreaks overwinters as an egg - the larvae hatch as the leaves of Blackthorn emerge. I think some larvae hatch and immediately hibernate, which makes sense as I would think that the egg is the most vulnerable part of the life cycle (its immobile!). Brown Hairstreak is surveyed by looking for eggs - if humans can find them ...

Thanks, guys. After I had posted this thread, I saw another caterpillar on the side of a wall outside near our Wisteria, this one was quite big in comparison, about 4 or 5cm in length and bright green, it's gone now, but it made me wonder.
Before now, I have never seen a caterpillar so late in the year and now I've seen two different types, are they like buses?
Seriously though, I didn't realise that this behaviour was so common.