Canon 300 2.8 for Birds in Flight? (1 Viewer)

I have a 1DMKIV and also the new 100-400, but aquiring focus of small birds in flight still seems spotty at best. Would a 1st gen 300 2.8 or a newer 1DX body be a better choice.
I want to specialize on Birds in Flight as my subjects of choice and not sure which way to go at this point.
Probably will be shooting hand held most of the time as well, If that helps.
Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

The 300/2.8 IS II + 2×TC III works really well on the 7D MkII to give 35mmeq 960/5.6. Sharpness, AF, and handling is truly excellent. :t:


Chosun :gh:

With the 1DX it lacks reach for so many occasions, you would be better off with a 7D2 combination.

I was told by someone that what the 1DX and even the new 5DSR lack in reach they make up in crop ability, not sure how true that is.

The 1DX has 18mp, the 1DX2 20Mp , the same as the 1.6x crop 7D2.
I have tried all three and I found that the 7D2 probably betters the 1DX for crop ability but not to the full 1.6x, more like 1.25. The pixel quality of the 1DX is, amongst many other things, superior to compensate. Should be at the price too.

The 5DSR has 50mp and should have the ability to outcrop them all I would imagine. Never tried one so can't comment really.

The 1Dx will improve your "Hit rate" over the 1D4 as will a Canon 300 F2.8 L IS - but not by a great deal! I currently use a 1DX, 7D2, 100-400 Mk2 and 300 F2.8 L IS (I used to own the 1D4) and the 1DX + 300 F2.8 would be my preferred choice. However this is only the better setup for a limited range of distances. The 100-400, whilst marginally slower to AF, is far more flexible and lighter. The 1DX has better AF than the 1D4 but the difference is not huge and I feel that the 7D2 is about the same as the 1D4 for AF.

In other words changing your camera, lens or both is not going to make a great deal of difference for this sort of shooting. Perfecting your technique is FAR more important. You already have an excellent setup so throwing money at the problem will reap few, if any, rewards. Practice on some easier subjects (Seagulls are great for this) until you can nail them regularly, then move on to harder/smaller subjects.

No combination will give you 100% results but practice and reasonable expectations will allow you to get more keepers. Good luck!

I have found it very difficult to follow BiF with the 300 f2.8 with 2x. Fine without, I haven't tried with 1.4 on. I use it on a 7D2.

Phil

Thats interesting about the 1DMKIV vs 1DX. I'm just finding the 100-400 not nailing the AF as often as I'd like. I'm trying to practice every single weekend and right now its mostly fast shore birds like yellow legs.
But even slower moving birds like Herons don't always have the eye as sharp as I think it should be, matter of fact not a whole lot different than my old 100-400, where i thought there would be a world of difference. when the AF is spot on, yes you can see a difference, but thats when the AF is perfect..
I was hoping the 300 would help that, but now I'm not so sure.

The 300 is a great lens and takes the 2x and 1.4x very well, its proven over the years. I suspect with practice BIF could be nailed. Remember the af points on the 1D gives better scope.
My previous body was a 1D series and I loved it, was just the weight for an old timer like me so now 7D2. All in all I preferred the 1D body and given the option would go back but decision made now. Unless someone wants to do a swap deal!
I doubt you would be disappointed whichever body with time and practice. Many people get stunning results with all sorts of set ups around the ones suggested in this thread, so in many ways its a very subjective choice.

Good luck, Phil

Well I'm almsot 60 now myself and the weight of the 100-400 and 1DMKIV after shooting for 4 hours does have its drawbacks.
I'm trying so many new things too in the past few weeks. Normally I just set the camera to AV and let it decide the settings as sometimes its just too hard to change in the middle of shooting.
Well after a lot of reading and advice(here and elsewhere) I'm trying 2 new things at least as far as BIF anyawys. First is back button focusing, and second is shooting in manual exposure.
Still most of the fabulous shots of BIF I see are usually done with 1 of 3 lenses, at least for Canons anyways, and those are the 300,500 and 600.
Not to advertise but the FM forums are also great for seeing some great Bird images.
I also shoot on a tripod sometime and have a great gimbal setup which includes the LensMasterRH-2. Fantastic Gimbal btw, but sometimes a gimbal just seems to get in the way more than help.
But back to what I was saying, any advice as to shooting my best BIF images, including settings and such would be greatly appreciated.

Yes to manual. In AV you will have to put in some compensation 99% of the time for birds against the sky. That depends on the weather conditions. I think I may have seen, or have, a link to an article on BIF. Will see if I can find it and send via PM.
Using a tripod and gimbal takes away the weight issue when carrying, aside from the initial tramp. Unless of course you are walking around when it is a heavy load. This is certainly much more of an issue when a bit older. Never used to bother me but now mid 60's it does.

Cheers, Phil

Yes you are right on the money as far as compensation, I used to put in between 2/3 to sometime a full stop just to be able to see more than silhouettes.
Don't get me wrong I really like still shots of birds as well, its just something seeing them in flight, and as well as the actual challenge of shooting them.

Bsmooth said:

Yes you are right on the money as far as compensation, I used to put in between 2/3 to sometime a full stop just to be able to see more than silhouettes.
Don't get me wrong I really like still shots of birds as well, its just something seeing them in flight, and as well as the actual challenge of shooting them.

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Totally see where you are coming from, I often put in 2 stops. It all depends on the day. Sometimes easier for using the UK as less often that we get clear bright blue skies. Our issue is enough light for a good proportion of the year. I got plenty of tips by just googling BIF photography but having said that I don't do much as usually have the 2x on and have found it difficult. This weekend I will be doing some but against the sea so hopefully less difficult and am using the 1.4x.

I've recently started using the combination you're proposing.

For big slow moving birds like geese, herons, large raptors the AF is fine with a 2x(Mk3) but often struggles to acquire or keep up with smaller and faster birds.

The 1.4x (again mk3) is much faster and very usable indeed.

The extra weight does take a bit of getting used to though, coming from a 400 5.6 prime!

Thats the thing, most shots in flight are of larger birds as you say. I really like the barn swallows and chimney swifts as thet literally fly only inches from the ground sometime yet other times are so high you can barely see them. Or when they can actaully get a dragonfly in mid-air!.
I really like the raptors as well, and was hoping this weekend to see the fall migration as they fly south for the winter.
Last week I was watching as 3 harriers were getting bounced by either a perigrine or coopers hawk, it was just too far away to tell. By the time I was even close after walking for about a half hour, all the action had literally flew away. Sorry sometime I just keep talking and can't shut up !

Bsmooth, a fixed length prime telephoto will outperform a zoom. You're at 520mm/f5.6 and nearly 3kg now.

You'll have to sort out the FX vs DX body question yourself. What you gain in reach, you lose in high ISO ability (2000+). It's a matter of striking a happy medium for the type of shooting you mostly do. The body is nearly double the weight. Yours now, in between the two. Whichever set up and lens you ultimately choose, you should be able to walk around with it on a sling set up.

To my mind there's only two lenses you should be looking at - the 300mm/f2.8 IS II, or the 400mm/f4 DO IS II. Both are light enough to hand hold and use for BIF.

The 300mm/f2.8 MkII is 2.35kg but beautifully sharp and AF's well with TC's. Pointing it for BIF is just a matter of practice. There is a noticeable difference in handling for me between the Mk1 and the MkII 300mm/f2.8 IS. You wouldn't think ~600grams would make that much difference, but I find that it does for BIF. You might use it with a 1.4xTC on your IDMkIV (for 545mm/f4) or a 7D II (for 670mm/f4), or go to 2xTC on the FX IDX II (600mm/f5.6). A friend uses it with 2xTC on a 7D II for 960mm/f5.6 and is still reach limited at times.

The 400mm/f4 DO IS II is a bit lighter at around 2kg, and could be used bare on your ID MkIV for the same 520mm at f4, or use the 1.4xTC for 730mm/f5.6. (560mm/f5.6 on FX). On the 7D II it would be 640mm/f4 bare, or 900mm/f5.6 with the 1.4x.

As far as shooting setup goes, I use Auto ISO. I set the lower ISO level to the camera's minimum, the upper level to 2500, and specify a shutter speed of 1/2000th sec wide open. I then adjust exposure compensation depending on sun angles and black or white birds. Some advanced photographers poo-poo this, but while you are spending a good year or so practising pointing and maintaining AF, I find it's just a whole lot less to think about in the heat of the moment.

As always, the best advice is going to be to see if you can try out some of the above camera/lens combo's yourself and see how you find shooting with them, and the results. Good luck! :t:


Chosun :gh:

Everyone has their own preferences for gear, and a lot of depends on what they prefer to shoot... I enjoy shooting raptors and eagles which are quite a bit slower than swifts and my gear of choice is a 1D Mark IV and a 7D Mark II. My 500mm f4 + 1.4x essentially live on a not-really-portable tripod with gimbal head, and my 100-400 vII lives on the 7DII.

Both cameras give me 10 fps, and decent high ISO performance but if I had to pick one body for consistency it would be the 1DIV. I shoot manual exposure 99% of the time, higher shutter speed, usually 1 full stop above maximum aperture, and Auto ISO. With darker birds, I sometimes use spot metering.

Being retired, $$ isn't as east to come by anymore, but if I could afford it, I'd buy the new 400mm f4 DO II in a hearbeat. I had one of the original DO's and it was a fine lens. Decently sharp, took a 1.4x with ease which gave me a nicely hand-holdable 560mm f5.6. I've seen images from the new Do and they are tack-sharp!

Your name is familiar... aren't you a regular on Fred Miranda?

I definitely wouldn't use the Auto setting for BiF.
I use the 7D2 with 400mm f5.6 and always use AV at 5.6 with AI Servo and centre spot focussing only.
A few sessions on the Farne Islands photographing alcids flying in is wonderful practice. If you can get some keepers from that.....:t:

djohnston said:

I definitely wouldn't use the Auto setting for BiF.
I use the 7D2 with 400mm f5.6 and always use AV at 5.6 with AI Servo and centre spot focussing only.
A few sessions on the Farne Islands photographing alcids flying in is wonderful practice. If you can get some keepers from that.....:t:

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If you use AV how do you control shutter speed? For BIF you presumably want to freeze the action.

I guess it depends on the bird size and speed. For larger birds the 100-400V2 seems ideal. But for the birds I sometimes shoot and that would be swallows and smaller birds, that Wouldn't necessarily be really far away. I would think that a faster focusing lens would be better, a prime like the 300 2.8 would fit the bill nicely at least it seems to fit that, being a prime first and second being 2.8 which would help with shutters speeds.