Leica: to APO or not APO? (1 Viewer)

Edward · Aug 1, 2003

Can't believe this is the virgin Leica scope thread but here goes anyway. Last year it was time to update the bins and I opted for Leica 10x42 BN and have been very happy with them. This year it could be a new scope and I'm leaning towards Leica again, probably 77 mm. I would only use it for general viewing purposes - life's too short for digiscoping.Do any Leica owners recommend the extra £300 or so for the APO version or not?

E

robinm · Aug 1, 2003

I have the APO 77 and in normal lighting conditions the difference is not noticeable - I did try the 2 side by side in thise conditions. I have been birding in failing light and I have noticed how much more I can see compared to others without APO type scopes.

If you ever do decide to digiscope the extra reduction in exposure time can be critical in getting a good shot.

Have you decided what eyepiece to buy? For general birding I prefer the 32WW although for digiscoping I think the 20-60 zoom is better.

Doubtless (as with all things to do with optics) others will express different (and equally relevant) opinions.

CJW · Aug 1, 2003

A good mate of mine has bought the APO77 and it's a fabulous piece of kit. He got the zoom lense and finds it much more versatile for general birding AND digiscoping - most digiscope purists would probably say the 32 wide is the better lense for that pursuit, but we've found there's no descernible loss of quality with the zooms.
I got the Swarovski ATS80HD and to be honest, even though it was an extra £300+, there's very little to choose between them(perhaps a fractionally brighter and sharper image on the Swaro').

Doug · Aug 1, 2003

this helps me with a difficult decision I face. I confess to being swayed towards the ATS80HD but question myself if it is just badge snobbery. Is the price difference really matched by optical improvement of equal measure.

I am off to the birdfair to find out. However, my wife is after the ATS65HD first so I can't get mine until we have paid for that for her. This will take huge self control on my part.

CJW · Aug 1, 2003

Hi Doug, as I said optically there is very little to coose between the two scopes, but another point to consider is that the Sawrovski is quite a bit lighter than the Leica which comes in handy when you have to lug the thing about all day. I don't think 'badge snobbery' has anything to do with it - especially as when you put a cover on the scope you can't tell which one it is!

Chris Moore · Aug 1, 2003

Hi Edward,
I used to have a Leica APO 77. Exchanged it last year for Swarovski 65HD as it was far to heavy for a days birding. I would thoroughly recommend a smaller scope as you dont lose much over the bigger scopes and its comfortable all day.

Doug · Aug 1, 2003

I didn't realise the weight difference was so great between Leica & swarovski. I wouldn't want to go down to a 65 - I do like the power of an 80.But the weight is a real factor as I do carry the scope - often all day. I have the dents in my shoulders to prove it.

CJW · Aug 1, 2003

I suppose the weight factor will also depend on which tripod you are mounting your scope on (I carry my scope on the tripod for speed).

Gaukur · Aug 1, 2003

Hi Edward
I think you will not see the difference between APO and non-APO exept under difficult ligth conditions. BUT then, here in Iceland we very often have difficult light conditions. I did observe a tern in a far distance with seemingly black bill at Melrakkasletta this spring with a Leica non APO and then saw the same bird at same distance with a usually Arctic Tern-red bill through my Zeiss 85Fl. Even though terns with black bills are more interesting than ones with red bills here in Iceland, I think you should go for the APO. I also recommend 77mm rather than smaller scope, still because of our difficult light conditions. Of course if you want a lighter and shorter scope you should go for Zeiss!!

Edward · Aug 1, 2003

Thanks for your answers. Interesting, Gaukur, I just heard the very same story about the tern on Melrakkasletta on the phone 5 minutes ago whilst talking to Bjössi! I knew I could trust you to mention Zeiss too (which was very impressive in finding that Grey Phalarope this summer by the way)!

Chris Moore makes an interesting point about weight. When I heard about Leica's 62 mm I thouhgt that it must be great for travelling but here in Iceland we do a lot of our birding from the car (rain never falls vertically here, always at a 45° angle so you can always position your car so the scope remains dry) and it's only in the autumn that we do any long distance walking along the coast where a lighter scope would be a real benefit.

I would want to get a 20x60 zoom. I just like the versatility.

E

Darrell Clegg · Aug 1, 2003

Edward.
I bought an APO - I justified it to myself by thinking that if I'd gone for the non APO I would always be wondering "what if." I never find myself thinking "I wish I'd bought the standard version" only death or taxes would part me from it, and then only after a struggle.

BTW if you have a manfrotto tripod, be sure to buy a quick release plate specifically for Leica (they also make them for Zeiss and Swarovski) this stops the scope swivelling on the head.

Darrell

Pie Face · Aug 1, 2003

Hi all

In my experience non APO/ED/Flourite scopes tend to suffer from blue colour fringes around objects. I have found that this is particularly noticable on the non-flourite Kowa's and Optolyth's. This blue fringing appears particularly noticeable when digiscoping though the effect can be reduced in photo shop. As for the Leica's I have no experience of the non APO though have a APO 77 with a 20-60 zoom. This scope totally blinds anything that I've owned before, my previous sopes have been Kowa TSN4 (8 years faithful service) Nikon ED2 (too small and not bright enough above 30X), Optolyth TBG80 (Worst scope I've ever owned, Blue fringes and bits kept breaking off!) and my old faithful Opticron Piccolo which I bought for £100, kept for it for 6 years and sold it for £75. Apologies for going off at a tangent.
Personally I would'nt touch anything other than an APO/ED/Flourite/HD, we just don't get enough good light days.
As for the Leica vs Swarovski theres not much in them (a friend of mine has a ATS80HD) granted the Swarovski is lighter and a gnats sharper at 60X but can Swarovski really justify the £500 price differance? Also the Zeiss 85 is excellent but the barrelling at 20X is very annoying, and readers may or may not be aware that Nikon have just brought out a new BIG ED scope I'm sure that must be worth a look.

Regards

Mark

eric s · Aug 1, 2003

I tested an ATS80 HD and ATS80 side by side at a store (took them outside.) It was not hard to get into a situation where the HD made all the difference in the world.

Backlit leaves (not by the sun, just bright sky) were nothing but purple in the non-HD. With the HD, they were exactly the right color, no purple in sight.

I was already leaning towards the HD, but this made the decision easy.

I can also say that the new "S" version of the swarovsky are wonderfully light and small. I have used an AT80-HD before, so when I saw the ATS-80 HD I thought they had put out the 65. The new version was really that much smaller than I remembered.

Eric

Edward · Aug 25, 2003

APO 77 with 20x60 zoom it was in the end, got my clammy hands on it yesterday and after using a Bushnell for years it certainly was an absolute revelation! Fog ruled out any chance of finding my first ever Sooty Shearwater but the long staying Black Duck at Garður looked mighty fine yesterday!

robinm · Aug 25, 2003

Edward: Glad to hear you're pleased with your purchase.

Good birding

Tannin · Aug 26, 2003

Excellent stuff, Edward. Good for you. Now, I fear, you will be so pleased with your new scope that we won't see much of you on Bird Forum for a while, as you will be outside enjoying your new, bigger and brighter birds!

davross · Dec 10, 2004

no problem

Edward said:
Can't believe this is the virgin Leica scope thread but here goes anyway. Last year it was time to update the bins and I opted for Leica 10x42 BN and have been very happy with them. This year it could be a new scope and I'm leaning towards Leica again, probably 77 mm. I would only use it for general viewing purposes - life's too short for digiscoping.Do any Leica owners recommend the extra £300 or so for the APO version or not?

E

I would certainly recommend the apo version, i have one myself and have been very satisified with it, it is brilliant.Apart from birding i also use it for looking at the night sky and it performs very well.I have a 20-60 zoom eyepiece on mine and again it is excellant, by all means go ahead and buy this scope you won't be disapointed !

kabsetz · Dec 10, 2004

I have a friend who bought the non-Apo Televid some five years back. He got a good sample, and anyway the Leica is one of the best non-apo scopes when things are right. However, he was never fully satisfied and was always looking through other people's scopes and mumbling to himself. Then, a couple of years back, he upgraded to an Apo, and has been smiling smugly ever since.

Dont know if this helps or hurts, but I think you can learn from him also, not only from all the other guys who went Apo straight away.

Kimmo

Nexus6 · Feb 14, 2005

Thread Enlightment, I bought the Manfrotto Nature 128NC and wondered why my Leica kept swivelling on the tripod. So now I will find the correct head for the Leica.

Thanks Darrell.

Nexus6 · Feb 14, 2005

It came with what I assume is a quick release head as part of the kit for birders, but this is pretty poor and as I said keep coming loose. I can't find the Leica adaptor on any of the Manfrotto web pages, any help appreciated. By the way this is the model I have, Manfrotto 190NAT3 Tracker Tripod Green with 128RC Head Grn.

Nexus6

Leica: to APO or not APO? (1 Viewer)

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