Birdquest Evaluations (1 Viewer)

About a year ago, Jim M. posted:
Birdquest Tour Leader Evaluations
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Was hoping some here might have experience with the following Birdquest tour leaders, and be willing to share their impressions of their leadership styles. (I find the Birdquest website unhelpful in this regard). I’m less interested in birding skills (which I expect are very good or better for all) than people skills, pleasantness, ability to manage groups effectively, being respectful and considerate of participants, and having an interest in wildlife other than birds.
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Having just returned from a Birdquest Tour from Hell in Costa Rica, and this being about the only thing I can find online regarding Birdquest evaluations, I was heartened to find that at least one person in the world (notably from my side of the Atlantic) thought that there were other criteria which should be considered in evaluating tour guides.

What I was first interested in, having been deprived in those areas, was being allowed time to sleep, eat, and go to the bathroom. (We did pay for fairly good quality hotels and meals, leading me to assume we’d be able to sleep in the hotels and eat the meals.) We began very early every single morning, which would have been okay if we’d been able to go to bed early, but tour activities were scheduled well into the evening. The best I could manage was 6 hours of sleep a night, 5 if I got up for the earliest activity. Tour demands on either or both sides of some meals either prohibited eating them at all or wolfing down whatever you could. And, on one occasion, even though a stop at a restaurant was necessary to drop someone off, a bathroom break was quite some time farther away. When I informed the tour leader that I’d need to go to the bathroom sooner than that, he told me to go in the woods! (Might not be so difficult for those of the male sex, but it’s considerably more complicated for those of us who are not.) And on one occasion the tour guide and every other single member of the tour just went off and left me alone on a trail in a cloud forest in a foreign land. I can only remember one time when we had 2 hours of free time in the middle of the day, even though we were often promised it.

In addition, I’d have to say that the tour guide was sometimes helpful to the participants in finding birds and looking at them through the scope, or taking photos of them with their own cameras, at other times he wasn’t. He was downright distasteful of quetzals and macaws, and of people who wanted to see them. There were birds I wanted to see, in some cases had never seen before, that we passed before I got a change to get a good view of them. I think I’d have to say that the main purpose of the tour seemed to be checking as many boxes off on the checklist as possible, and in many cases all that involved was one tour participant saying he’d gotten a very quick glimpse of a bird. It certainly did not mean that all or even most participants saw it, or even that one person got a good view of it.

I have discussed all these problems with both the tour leader and the Birdquest office, and it seems that I am the only person in the history of the world to ever voice a single complaint, and that “that’s what all bird tours do.” Now, I’ve been birding for decades in the U.S., and I’ve never found birders or birding to be that extreme and obsessive, and I've always found tour guides to be more consistently helpful. Since this was my first encounter with birders from the U.K., I couldn’t speak to their proclivities.

I do think that Birdquest needs to be held accountable, have some limits put on their behavior and how it affects others, or, at least, that future victims be warned about them. After the first week of this, it had become intolerable. I was exhausted, stressed out, not seeing the birds I wanted to see, or enjoying anything. I dropped out of the tour I had paid about $5,400 for (not including airfare, trip insurance, and other necessary expenses) and made arrangements to go back to San José and do some fun stuff while I still had a little vacation time left. Of course, the kindhearted folks at Birdquest are refusing to give me any refund, just because they don’t give refunds.

All I can say is “LET THE BUYER BEWARE!”

Big_Blue said:

What I was first interested in, having been deprived in those areas, was being allowed time to sleep, eat, and go to the bathroom.

We began very early every single morning, which would have been okay if we’d been able to go to bed early, but tour activities were scheduled well into the evening.

Tour demands on either or both sides of some meals either prohibited eating them at all or wolfing down whatever you could.

I dropped out of the tour I had paid about $5,400 for (not including airfare, trip insurance, and other necessary expenses) and made arrangements to go back to San José and do some fun stuff while I still had a little vacation time left.

All I can say is “LET THE BUYER BEWARE!”

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To be fair to Birdquest, I wonder why you decided to go on one of their trips - if I'd paid $5,400 for a trip and one of the other participants didn't want to go out early in the morning or late evening (the best times for tropical birding), I'd be pretty annoyed.

Did you read the homepage of Birdquest - two sentences jump out:

"Birdquest tours are designed specifically for people who want to spend their time birding while exploring the world’s wild places."

"The first hours of daylight are by far the most productive and interesting time for observing birds and other wildlife, so early starts are a necessity on all serious birding tours, as are quite long days in the field in many places."

That you dropped out and decided to do 'some fun stuff' in San Jose suggests you really didn't read the home page of Birdquest where they clearly state that they cater for keener birders and that their "primary aim is to guide you to those birds which are truly memorable, localized or hard to find, and often all three".

Think about the others on the trip - they went to look for birds, they aren't served on the plate in the restaurant. That you wanted to sleep nice long hours and spend lengthy times over lunch would probably be to the direct detriment of every other participant who paid good money in the expectation to go birding at the best times and not waste time.

As for “LET THE BUYER BEWARE!” , yes beware, Birdquest caters for birders that want to go birding.


PS don't think you'd like a trip anywhere with me

Gotta totally agree with Jos here - BQ are a 'hardcore' company...and should be for the money they charge!! Most birders I know that could fork out that amount of cash just for CR would want to be in the field as long as possible so really you should've chosen a less committed tour company....can't see any blame on BQ's part here I'm afraid

Oh, pooh! Of course I read their website, but it is lacking in specifics, which I even requested well before the tour began, but only got the day before each day's activities. I've been going birding for decades, I just am not obsessed about long days being so long that even students and workers wouldn't be allowed to put in those hours! Nor has anyone else I've ever encountered. Some people are rational and use common sense. And, as I said, we weren't even seeing the birds I was interested in! There was just no upside to it!

birdboybowley said:

Gotta totally agree with Jos here - BQ are a 'hardcore' company...and should be for the money they charge!! Most birders I know that could fork out that amount of cash just for CR would want to be in the field as long as possible so really you should've chosen a less committed tour company....can't see any blame on BQ's part here I'm afraid

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Yeah, I'd blame BQ for not being that specific and making that clear, instead of using language that is open to interpretation.

Hmmmm....not really. As Jos pointed out their own quotes clearly state that the birding is long and intensive which is what birders want on a birding trip

Think that there are different approaches to birding trips, with the US based operators generally a bit more sensitive to the creature comforts.
UK shops have to cope with a higher percentage of really dedicated birders, so they adjust accordingly.
It might be helpful for some independent organization to rate the various operators, taking note of some of the issues Big_Blue raised. That might help prevent obvious misunderstandings, such as was the case here, where it appears the guide was focusing on getting more obscure birds for his group while one customer was really hoping to see macaws and quetzals.

I believe another UK tour operator might better serve your needs...https://travel.saga.co.uk/holidays/holiday-types/escorted-tours.aspx

I would not ever trust another UK bird tour provider. I am getting the idea that there may be more extreme birders in the UK, and I try not to ever be extreme about anything. One tends to lose one's perspective when one is extreme. I certainly would have no objection to BQ giving extreme tours for people who are extreme and want that sort of thing. But it is not that common in the U.S., and the BQ website does not make it clear that that is what you're gonna find yourself on. This is my 3rd trip to Costa Rica, and I've never encountered anything like it there. It's actually in direct apposition to the way of life of the local folk, and comes across like a bull in a china shop. The BQ website talks about quality, not quantity, and that sure isn't true. Quality was distinctly missing. For some unperceivable reason, they wanted to watch the same flycatchers and warblers for two hours, but couldn't spend a few minutes on a nesting pair of Macaws. They spent an awful lot of time on birds I can see at home anytime, while not spending time on the birds only found in Costa Rica. And as I said, the "helpfulness" of the guide was sporadic. I really think we could have gotten more sleep with better planning - an earlier dinner (ours was at 7 pm), and postponing the daily checklist half-hour for the next bus trip. But, all in all, I really don't think they cared about the participants to any great extent. Didn't care whether it was rewarding from a birding standpoint, didn't care how tired and worn out and hungry and stressed out we were. Just crack the whip and get these cattle on to whatever the guide thought we should be on to. I was calling him "Hitler" in my IMs back home. Oh, and thanks for your money!

Big_Blue said:

I would not ever trust another UK bird tour provider. I am getting the idea that there may be more extreme birders in the UK, and I try not to ever be extreme about anything. One tends to lose one's perspective when one is extreme. I certainly would have no objection to BQ giving extreme tours for people who are extreme and want that sort of thing. But it is not that common in the U.S., and the BQ website does not make it clear that that is what you're gonna find yourself on. This is my 3rd trip to Costa Rica, and I've never encountered anything like it there. It's actually in direct apposition to the way of life of the local folk, and comes across like a bull in a china shop. The BQ website talks about quality, not quantity, and that sure isn't true. Quality was distinctly missing. For some unperceivable reason, they wanted to watch the same flycatchers and warblers for two hours, but couldn't spend a few minutes on a nesting pair of Macaws. They spent an awful lot of time on birds I can see at home anytime, while not spending time on the birds only found in Costa Rica. And as I said, the "helpfulness" of the guide was sporadic. I really think we could have gotten more sleep with better planning - an earlier dinner (ours was at 7 pm), and postponing the daily checklist half-hour for the next bus trip. But, all in all, I really don't think they cared about the participants to any great extent. Didn't care whether it was rewarding from a birding standpoint, didn't care how tired and worn out and hungry and stressed out we were. Just crack the whip and get these cattle on to whatever the guide thought we should be on to. I was calling him "Hitler" in my IMs back home. Oh, and thanks for your money!

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Well, I agree with you that CR is too nice a country for death march style birding. Fortunately there are plenty of options, so it is easily avoided, but one has to learn to look. In these cases, the individual in charge makes a huge difference, so a word with the tour operators, or at latest with the guide at the start can be helpful. The maxim that 'the wheel that squeaks gets the grease' remains true, even on birding trips.

There are a lot of things going on in this thread. Let me try to separate some of the strands, and offer some opinions from my experience having been on 13 commercial birding tours around the globe, with four UK companies, four North American, and two African.

1. Commercial bird tour participants range the spectrum from hard-core global listers who view the tour as a kind of "work" to those seeking to see a variety of new birds while on a relaxing vacation in an exotic land. I have found this both on British and American tours, and among British and American participants. There is no way that a tour company can completely satisfy birders on both of these extremes in a single tour (except, perhaps, on certain tours where there are so few species that you don't really have to work that hard to see all of them). Personally, I probably fall in the middle between these extremes.

2. Birdquest does have the reputation of being oriented to “serious” birders, by which is meant listers whose main goal is to maximize the number of new birds they see on the trip. However, that reputation can't really be gleaned by the uninitiated from their website, so I'd agree with the original poster that the website didn't fully apprise her of what she was in for.

3. I can deduce who the tour guide was on this tour. (He does not post on this forum by the way). I have been on a tour with him as well. Of all the guides I have toured with, I would rank him last in terms of enthusiasm. I felt he really made the tour a grind rather than a joy, though I give him credit for putting in his hours (which were longer than most other guides and longer than I wanted to go on occasion). So I think some of this is an issue with the guide. However, Birdquest is the only company I have toured with that doesn't request feedback from participants post-tour. (Incidentally, I too received a dismissive reply when I expressed my dissatisfaction with this guide to Birdquest).

Actually Birdquest used to solicit customer feedback. They stopped doing it a while ago.

And as others have stated, Birdquest is the hardcore of the hardcore. I've been on tours where the leader forced a two-hour siesta to escape the heat (come to think of it, it was Costa Rica), and numerous clients still went out exploring on their own. They didn't want to waste one precious moment of light.

Birdquest tours are all about the list and seeing the birds that other tours don't. So maybe the same little flycatchers aren't as gaudy as macaws or quetzals, but if they're uncommon or a specialty of the area, you WILL spend more time looking at those. Frankly, all of the major tour companies work that way - focus on the difficult and unusual and the common stuff will come along for the ride.

I've learned over the years to limit myself to their easier tours with maybe a touch of "moderate." Anything else is really too much for me. And while their first trips to a new region will get you some amazing stuff, odds are it will be more difficult then even they appreciated. And to be fair, many tour companies understate the difficulty of a tour. But if you have any questions, just ask them. I've found all tour companies to be forthcoming about their tours if you ask.

Frankly, to me it sounds like the OP didn't do his homework.

Big_Blue said:

I would not ever trust another UK bird tour provider. I am getting the idea that there may be more extreme birders in the UK, and I try not to ever be extreme about anything. One tends to lose one's perspective when one is extreme. I certainly would have no objection to BQ giving extreme tours for people who are extreme and want that sort of thing. But it is not that common in the U.S., and the BQ website does not make it clear that that is what you're gonna find yourself on. This is my 3rd trip to Costa Rica, and I've never encountered anything like it there. It's actually in direct apposition to the way of life of the local folk, and comes across like a bull in a china shop. The BQ website talks about quality, not quantity, and that sure isn't true. Quality was distinctly missing. For some unperceivable reason, they wanted to watch the same flycatchers and warblers for two hours, but couldn't spend a few minutes on a nesting pair of Macaws.

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I think the main reason for this must've been technical: those warblers and flycatchers can be really difficult to identify, particularly in non-breeding plumage. Same applies to Old World warblers and flycatchers, even though they're from entirely different families. Whereas macaws and Quetzals are easy by comparison, and most of the other participants have probably seen them before, anyway.

Personally, I'd much prefer getting a good view of each bird (and ideally a record shot), rather than just a cursory glance and blind faith in the guide's ability, so I can understand some of your issues with the tour - including the part about feedback and the company's seeming unwillingness to accept it.

However, I can also relate to the people who explicity choose this kind of tour so they can bird by "pro rules". From their perspective, it's incredibly annoying to have to accommodate the style of casual birders or non-birders whose relaxed attitude causes delays of all kinds. Rising very early, for example, is important for birding (and mammal-ing) success anywhere, in Northern Europe just as much as in the tropical jungle.
This applies to other hobbies as well, by the way. I've been on trips (including some for university) with an explicit focus on history, art, or archaeology, and it's almost as stressful and annoying for the guides or dedicated participants if there's someone on the team who starts lagging behind or getting side-tracked as it is on birding tours.

I agree with others that there should be a more explicit labeling of the type of birding tour you can expect; perhaps an official colour-coded scale going from "Robin strokers" (breakfast at ten...) to "birding Nazis" (no n00bs, maximum efficiency, stragglers will be shot).

Just wondering if there was a second (maybe local) guide on this trip or if it was just the one guide. A lot of bird tours use two guides and this can help a lot if there are different expectations and attitudes in the group because, to an extent at least, the group can split up. For the prices Birdquest charge, I'd probably expect a second guide as standard. It can help everyone to get along and get the most out of the trip.

Sangahyando said:

I think the main reason for this must've been technical: those warblers and flycatchers can be really difficult to identify, particularly in non-breeding plumage. Same applies to Old World warblers and flycatchers, even though they're from entirely different families. Whereas macaws and Quetzals are easy by comparison, and most of the other participants have probably seen them before, anyway.

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The OP also says she could see some of those birds easily at home. So I suspect part of the issue was Old World birders wanting to see birds that were new to them, but otherwise widespread in the western hemisphere and readily seen by Americans/Canadians. I've encountered this issue on a BQ tour myself. We took a special boat trip one morning in the pantanal which had as one of its main target birds Least Bittern. A rare bird for the area, but one I've seen all over the U.S. and can see a short drive from home. Certainly not a bird I was traveling to Brazil to see!

Jeff hopkins said:

I've learned over the years to limit myself to their easier tours with maybe a touch of "moderate." Anything else is really too much for me. And while their first trips to a new region will get you some amazing stuff, odds are it will be more difficult then even they appreciated. And to be fair, many tour companies understate the difficulty of a tour. But if you have any questions, just ask them. I've found all tour companies to be forthcoming about their tours if you ask.

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FYI, their website describes what I believe this tour was as: "Tour Category: Easy walking for the most part and comfortable accommodations almost throughout"

Jim M. said:

The OP also says she could see some of those birds easily at home. So I suspect part of the issue was Old World birders wanting to see birds that were new to them, but otherwise widespread in the western hemisphere and readily seen by Americans/Canadians. I've encountered this issue on a BQ tour myself. We took a special boat trip one morning in the pantanal which had as one of its main target birds Least Bittern. A rare bird for the area, but one I've seen all over the U.S. and can see a short drive from home. Certainly not a bird I was traveling to Brazil to see!

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I can relate to that. I was in a "national park" (equivalent) in Sichuan once, and one of the birds that were advertised as local "specialties" was the Mallard... Also, several fairly common birds around here (Middle Spotted and Black Woodpeckers, White Stork, Hawfinch) are treated as very special by British birders.
But that risk comes with offering tours to people from all over the world. I guess that to avoid the issue, they'd have to advertise a fairly comprehensive list of "target species" for each expedition, which might render the pool of potential customers for each tour too small, in thr end.

An interesting thread. I suspect that I would have really enjoyed your tour. Very jealous.

I am poorly travelled. Within the Western Palearctic, I've done independent birding trips to eleven countries (which included hiring guides here and there for a day or two) and been on scheduled tours to four countries with effectively three providers.

On my first visit to Israel, I was shoehorning it in because of work and did not have time to organise a crack at Nubian Nightjar so I opted for a tour. Because a previous group had complained about long days, the guide left it too late in the week and the weather intervened meaning no attempt for the Nightjar or really the Owl. On another tour, I described the guide as quarter-arsed because he wasn't full on enough to be half-arsed.

In the end, I finally got my head around the fact that if you opt for a tour, you just have to take it how it comes. Laissez faire rather than caveat emptor.

I have been on one Birdquest tour and that was successful - but I had got as far as checking for chartered flight options to get me off Sao Nicolau when we were marooned there on scheduled flights and there seemed little appreciation that we were scuppering any time that we would have for the Boa Vista leg.

All the best

One of the few advantages of advancing years and reduced mobility is knowing I'll NEVER have to go on a Birdquest again. One of the disadvantages is knowing I'll NEVER be able to go on a Birdquest again!!
Russ

It must be a nationality thing, as a British birder, I'd know exactly what to expect from BQ, it is the domain of the 'full on' birder and if I paid that amount of money, I'd make sure they kept me awake to get my mony's worth!

I've never looked at their website as I'd never be able to afford one of their trips but I know their reputation as most in the UK do so gentle siestas and lots of free afternoons, I would not expect.


A

In the past when I had the money I have been on a handful of Birdquest tours, along with several offered by other companies. Nowadays I can very rarely afford even the cheapest commercial birding trips.

Anyway, the problems described here arose because BQ did not adequately describe the daily routines in the information available to prospective clients before committing to a trip. Yes, most birders know that BQ is a 'hardcore' company but not all trips are so excessively demanding as this one. I went on the BQ 'Best of Costa Rica' way back in about 2004, not with this guide, and it was a very relaxed tour yet still very successful and enjoyable. Yet on my latest Costa Rica trip a few years ago we arrived at one lodge just after a BQ group had left and a Danish birder who had been there throughout the BQ time was keen to tell us how the group had been up and out way before light each morning - and that was early. They would not have had much sleep.

It would not take much space on websites and in brochures for companies to include a paragraph honestly describing what demands a particular tour will place on clients. It would avoid a lot of problems.

Steve