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Pec Sand or Ruff - Hale, UK (1 Viewer)

Pitvar

Pitvar

Well-known member
Hello all, after getting rained off a high tide visit to Pickerings Pasture I went up to Carr Lane pools in Hale. Light was very poor and raining but several good flocks of waders flew in. There were colour ringed Godwits and at least two Ruff but I'm undecided whether I also saw the Pec Sand that's been there in recent weeks?

The left hand bird was smaller than the obvious Ruff [but I know they vary a lot in size] and when it flew a short distance was noticeably white around the under wing, top of the legs and in a broad band on the underwing. In the light and at around 80m with bins I wasn't sure that the demarkation across the breast was strong enough for Pec Sand?

Sorry this is more like a Monet than a photo but is there enough to venture an opinion? Thanks
 

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Magnified, the chest doesn't really contrast with the belly and is barely darker than the face, which looks very plain with isolated dark eye and dark crown - could just be the photo making chest look paler though and it does show a hint of pec type head pattern, so I'm not that sure!
 

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Thanks all - as I said above the lack of a distinct contrast on the chest was one of the things that worried me.
 
I agree that the left bird looks like a Pec, but am not wholly convinced from this image that it is one!
This one could go on and on for ever unless another image is posted showing another angle, because Juv female Ruffs can look very like this bird.
Features which IMO don't support Pec are as follows:
Viewed at 400% it has an open faced look which I think is because there is no obvious eye stripe in front of the eye. There appears to be one but in reality I think this is a shadow.
There appears to be no obvious mantle braces.
Even at this angle I would expect to see an obvious primary projection on Pec, but I think that's the tail we can see protruding from beneath the tertial tips?
The apparent contrast between greyish wing coverts and gingery mantle looks better for Ruff than Pec.
I think the apparent breast band could be enhanced by shadow?
Also, although there is a clear size (and plumage!) difference between the bird and the known male Ruff on the right, I would expect a Pec to look even smaller than this...
 
Interesting that the 2 species can appear confusingly similar with less than perfect pictures.
But, surely, this is a juvenile Ruff. Pectoral sandpiper is a short-legged species, and as the subject bird is striding with one leg above the water, the legs length can be gauged with confidence: IMO, Pec is out on that feature alone.
And if we further scrutinize the bird, I feel plumage is much better for juv Ruff than for Pec sand: the peach wash to the chest (showing no streaks); there is faint supercilium but on a Pec it should maintain its width to the supraloral area, it's not the case here; note also the flanks appear somewhat dirty and only the vent/undertail coverts are gleamingly white, more in keeping with Ruff. Finally, the bill base and legs don't appear particularly yellowish to me.

A similar juv Ruff:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tsirtalis/7924532418/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tsirtalis/7924536082/in/photostream/

Juv Pec sands:
http://nathistoc.bio.uci.edu/birds/charadriiformes/Calidris melanotos/index.htm
 
the left-hand bird is still a pec sand.. no ruffs have a head pattern like that, to mention just one id feature among many

Sean
 
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