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My first Purple Emperor (1 Viewer)

RobinD

Well-known member
I have seen my first Purple Emperor today in Black Park in Buckinghamshire!
It was male, feeding on salts on a path. As I turned down the track I noticed a White Admiral flying away from me down the path. I followed this with my binoculars and it flew over another butterfly resting on the path and veered into some brambles to feed. I returned to the other butterfly on the path, which on first glance had appeared to be a White Admiral. (It was about 30 metres away at this point). Surprised to see one on the ground, I made my way towards it and it then flew towards me and landed just behind me. The flight was very different from the WA, with much longer glides. It also looked larger with a different wing shape. I watched it for the next five minutes, down to about two metres distance and saw the dazzling purple sheen, orange circles and beautiful under-wing. It then flew off into the wood. (Time of sighting was about 1:15pm).

Can anyone tell me if there have been previous sightings in the area? I have looked on the Butterfly Conservation site but can’t find anything. Can any members help me out?
 
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Could I please repeat my recent request, that detailed information on where a scarce or rare species of insect may be seen, not be put into the public domain. Surely 'Near Pinewood' should more than sufficient.

Certainly the information will be useful to others wanting to see such species, but it can also attract the unscrupulous collector and the commercial collector/dealer.

How would 'Birders' feel if someone turned up at a publicised site of a rare nesting bird and shot it. It wouldn't go down very well would it? I wonder how many rare birds have been robbed of their eggs, simply because someone put the site information into the public domain.

Harry
 
Old, tired argument, Harry......... The RSPB (and I worked with their Snr Inspector!) will tell you that the egg / butterfly thieves already know the sites: even before YOU!
Getting LOTS of 'safe' viewers on the case will ALWAYS frustrate the thieves! Look at the Minsmere Queen of Spain Frits and Ant-Lions!
 
Clouseau said:
Old, tired argument, Harry......... The RSPB (and I worked with their Snr Inspector!) will tell you that the egg / butterfly thieves already know the sites: even before YOU!
Getting LOTS of 'safe' viewers on the case will ALWAYS frustrate the thieves! Look at the Minsmere Queen of Spain Frits and Ant-Lions!

I have to disagree Clouseau, very few sites have people present 24 hours a day. Even well protected birds nests get robbed.

Certainly some egg thieves are good at their work, as are some commercial butterfly collectors, but not all of them. It's the latter group that trawl the net for information. I'd bet a pound to a penny that someone will be waving a net in the very near vicinity of the PE site named in this thread before the week is up.

Harry
 
Clouseau said:
Well: you may be right. And if so, doesn't life SUCK?
Butterflies look NOTHING pinned into a case................[/QUOTE]

Agreed, so why should we make it easy for the collector/dealer by publicising the sites or localities, especially if they were previously unknown?

I'm far more interested in the preservation of various insect species, rather than their destruction.

Harry
 
I am not a subtle man, and remember well dealing with a collector in a rather physical way the year I was doing the transect at SBBOT. I am afraid I sent him packing with a bloody nose and broken killing jars. This taught me a valuable lesson…keep it quiet! It is a shame that in the era of digital photography, people still feel the need to stick nature in a draw, but they do, so I am with Harry on this one.

Simon.
 
Talking of Digi Photography

I have only just got a digi camera, and this is my first picy of a butterfly with it, I love the Super Macro setting. I am quite pleased with it.
 

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I have removed the detailed site information from my original post. I did not realise that this was likely to cause a problem!

This is my first post about Butterflies. If you want to encourage more interest in them do not jump down my throat!

The point of my post was to convey my excitement of a totally unexpected find of something I have only recently become more interested in.
I wondered if PE has been reported in the area before because as far as I knew, in Bucks they are only foung in the forest of Bernwood and possibly in the Chilterns. Black Park is a considerable distance from both of these. My butterfly book says there is a slight range expansion of PE after a decline. How far do they travel and given the early date of the sighting, is it likely to have bred locally?

ATB,

Robin
 
Hi Robin,
it is only early by about a week if that, so nothing too strange there. As to it breeding locally, it probably did. PEs tend to colonise around a Master Tree, this is a focal point through the season and for following years, if they do travel it is usually because the Master Tree has gone, which means they may only travel to another part of the wood or may even travel to another wood in the area.
 
booder said:
Hi Robin,
it is only early by about a week if that, so nothing too strange there. As to it breeding locally, it probably did. PEs tend to colonise around a Master Tree, this is a focal point through the season and for following years, if they do travel it is usually because the Master Tree has gone, which means they may only travel to another part of the wood or may even travel to another wood in the area.

Thanks Booder,

So how would I go about looking for the master tree? What type of tree is it likely to be. If I remember correctly, the foodplant is Willow species. The woodland is 'very' mixed beech, oak and pine. I understand the usual sightings of PE are gliding high in the canopy.
Any advice gratefully received.

Robin
 
The best thing to do is get to the wood early morning about 8am. PEs tend to start low down in the morning anytime between 8:30-11am and start to fly higher as the day progresses and warms up. Some people call the Master Trees Master Oaks, but it is not only Oak that become master trees, but it is most likely.
 
RobinD said:
I have removed the detailed site information from my original post. I did not realise that this was likely to cause a problem!

This is my first post about Butterflies. If you want to encourage more interest in them do not jump down my throat!

This is a dilemma that goes right through conservation. One of the best ways to protect wildlife is to encourage more interest: an increased awareness and appreciation of wildlife strenthens the hand of those trying to conserve it. But as we become more interested we naturally want to see these things for ourselves, whether it be Sea Eagles or Purple Emperors, and this creates extra pressure and risks on the creatures and their habitat.

The balance is not an easy one to strike. A few well publicised sites are probably the way to go if vulnerable species are not to be hidden away for an elite to study (which would not necessarily ensure their long-term future any more effectively).
 
brianhstone said:
This is a dilemma that goes right through conservation. One of the best ways to protect wildlife is to encourage more interest: an increased awareness and appreciation of wildlife strenthens the hand of those trying to conserve it. But as we become more interested we naturally want to see these things for ourselves, whether it be Sea Eagles or Purple Emperors, and this creates extra pressure and risks on the creatures and their habitat.

The balance is not an easy one to strike. A few well publicised sites are probably the way to go if vulnerable species are not to be hidden away for an elite to study (which would not necessarily ensure their long-term future any more effectively).

I quite agree with you and for many of these desired or flagship species there are well publicised sites (e.g. Bentley Wood for PE). However, new sites need reporting somewhere (if this is a new site!).

Black Park is a country park incorporating a SSSI and there are species present that I would not report on an open forum, and probably others that I do not know aboutas well! Finding other unusual species there should help increase its protection.

I did not understand the sensitivity of PE sites but would far rather a polite PM than a berating for my excitement. A 'Sticky' at the top of the butterfly and moth section detailing what level of detail to put for a sighting would be a sensible option!

I will look for the master tree and of course not report where it is in the unlikely event that I find it. But do I report any further sightings...

Robin
 
RobinD said:
I have removed the detailed site information from my original post. I did not realise that this was likely to cause a problem!

This is my first post about Butterflies. If you want to encourage more interest in them do not jump down my throat!

The point of my post was to convey my excitement of a totally unexpected find of something I have only recently become more interested in.
I wondered if PE has been reported in the area before because as far as I knew, in Bucks they are only foung in the forest of Bernwood and possibly in the Chilterns. Black Park is a considerable distance from both of these. My butterfly book says there is a slight range expansion of PE after a decline. How far do they travel and given the early date of the sighting, is it likely to have bred locally?

ATB,

Robin

Hello Robin,
I'm sorry if my request for suppressing precise locality of a scarce butterfly species was construed as 'jumping down your throat' it was not meant that way. We all get excited discovering an insect we haven't seen before, I do myself, even if it is a common species elsewhere. But as you may well appreciate now, it is possible to be too informative. As you are a recent 'convert' to entomology perhaps your enthusiasm is understandable.

In answer to your questions, It is very likely that the Purple Emperor is far more widely distributed in Bucks than the records show, simply because many of the woodlands where it may occur are not visited at the right time in the right conditions for insect flight, by someone who can recognise what he/she has seen.

Other locations may well be known to some people, who like me, are reluctant to release such data into the public domain for the reasons I have given elsewhere.

The P.E is a powerful flyer and could well have reached the locality you saw it in by flying from one of its other known localities, but, it could also have bred locally, and there may well be a breeding population where you saw it.

Alternatively, there could be a series of sites between the sites you have given, but only if these sites fulfill all the requirements of the butterfly as a breeding site. What looks a perfect site to a human eye may not be regarded similarly by the butterfly. The only way to find out if there are other extant sites, is to go out and look for them.

Some butterfly species are in serious decline, some are holding their ground, and others are expanding very rapidly indeed. The Comma for example has moved it norther range over 100 miles northward in the last ten years. Small Skipper and White-letter Hairstreak have also shown dramatic extension of their range in the north.

The PE can be found breeding at a site much further north than the most recent Atlas shows, i.e. on the Notts/Lincs border, and I'll go to my grave before I'll reveal that locality. I know they're breeding there because I found the larva on Sallow. I just happened to be out for a walk with a friend I was visiting in the area, and as is my habit, I pulled down a branch to give it a quick look over, and there were two PE larva present. There was no mistaking them, they are the most distinctive of all the British butterfly caterpillers. I've never been back to that site and I have no real interest in doing so, as I confine my recording to just two counties much further north. There's enough work in recording in these two counties to keep me busy for several lifetimes.

Enjoy your entomologising, just be aware that as far as certain species are concerned, some people do not always have the insects interests first and foremost, at heart.

Harry
 
Thank you Harry,

For birds, it is easy. Anything unusual goes to the county recorder. It is less obvious for insects. I am enjoying learning about other wildlife that I see on my breaks from work and am always keen to share my sightings. My sighting has been forwarded to the county council environmental records officer.

I find it horrific to think there are people who would try and catch these beautiful creatures to stick in a case. It is encouraging to think they are more widespread than is known!

ATB

Robin
 
I wonder if those in Notts/Lincs were introduced, probably unofficially. It certainly goes on and probably some of the 'collectors' that we need to be aware of are not intending to put a pin in their victims!

Several years ago, my son and I found a Wood White along a dis-used railway cutting in Leicestershire. It was a long way from where it 'ought' to have been and although we would have liked to have claimed a 'first' we had to conclude that it must have been introduced (why the introducer chose that species was intriguing as there were lots of Kidney Vetch, Cowslips and Violets on the site which would have given a choice of interesting possibilities).
 
Adey Baker said:
I wonder if those in Notts/Lincs were introduced, probably unofficially. It certainly goes on and probably some of the 'collectors' that we need to be aware of are not intending to put a pin in their victims!

Several years ago, my son and I found a Wood White along a dis-used railway cutting in Leicestershire. It was a long way from where it 'ought' to have been and although we would have liked to have claimed a 'first' we had to conclude that it must have been introduced (why the introducer chose that species was intriguing as there were lots of Kidney Vetch, Cowslips and Violets on the site which would have given a choice of interesting possibilities).

Hello Adey,
It was a possibility that I had considered, 'unauthorised' introductions are by no means unknown, whether it is done with either good or bad intentions. I kept quiet about this PE location to see if the record surfaced at some time, but as nothing appears to have been reported, it does make me think that it may be a natural occurrence. I would certainly like to believe it was.

Perhaps I should make the effort to go back and see if it is still present, if it has survived then it may be a genuine example of an extension in range, if it's no longer there, then perhaps they were 'laid down'.

Harry
 
RobinD said:
Thank you Harry,

For birds, it is easy. Anything unusual goes to the county recorder. It is less obvious for insects. I am enjoying learning about other wildlife that I see on my breaks from work and am always keen to share my sightings. My sighting has been forwarded to the county council environmental records officer.

I find it horrific to think there are people who would try and catch these beautiful creatures to stick in a case. It is encouraging to think they are more widespread than is known!

ATB

Robin

You will have a local butterfly recorder, check out your local naturalists society. Please send it to them. Keep up the good finds. The publicising sites debate is one Harry and I have already got into a bit. I personally feel that the threat from publicising sites in minimal and the benefits of letting people know where they can see 'exotic' wildlife is real and reduces accusations of elitism. Certainly in ten years of working in conservation I never heard anyone even mention collectors as a threat to butterflies.

Steve
 
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