• Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.

    Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Brief comparison Nikon HG 8x32 and 8x42, Kowa Genesis 8x33 and 8.5x44 (1 Viewer)

08retep15

Member
Hello!

In preparation of my first binocular purchase I obtained a lot of valuable input from sites like allbinos.com, bestbinocularsreviews.com, holgermerlitz.de and also from this site. As a small gesture of appreciation I would now like to share my observations with you.

My budget for a binocular is set to 1.000,-€. After some hours of reading in the mentioned sites, the Nikon HG and the Kowa genesis series seemed to offer best value for that money. I had no idea what would separate the 32mm and 42mm variants performancewise, so I decided to test both sizes.

Currently, the HG 8x42 and 8x32 are available at 839,-€ and 667,-€, the genesis 8.5x44 and 8x33 at 939,-€ and 759,-€. I ordered a sample of each from an internet tradehouse that is named after a mythological caste of female warriors, hence enjoying 30 days testing time before the throwouts need to be returned.

Except for the Kowa 8x33, all of them arrived last Friday, so I was doing a first evaluation in my illuminated living room and also outside in the street lit by streetlights.

Looks and feel
The Nikons are well padded in a sturdy textured rubber that offers a soft feel. All metallic surfaces are covered, and (in contrary to the Kowas) this even includes the focus wheel, the diopter ring, the front edge of the lens tubes and the eyelets for the neck strap, meaning that there is 0 chance that these instruments will cause any unwanted noise during transport and handling. The lens tubes feature some curvature which makes them very comfortable to hold (the 8x32 is however by default a little bit too small to offer perfect grip for two hands).

The Kowa in comparison sports a rubber that feels stiffer and shows a straight, slightly conical shape which does not feel a bit as "natural" as the Nikon 8x42 but is still ok.

The Kowa focus wheel offers good grip and plenty of space for two fingers. Due to the fact that I have quite slim fingers, I was also able to place two of them on the Nikon's focus wheel. The grip of this wheel was ok at least in dry conditions (I did not test wet). All wheels operated smoothly, the Nikon 8x32's almost felt too light and emitted some slight noise.

The eye cups of the Kowa are significantly wider than the Nikon's, which suits me better. I found that I had to extend the eye pieces of all models as far as possible in order to avoid kidney beaning and other shading effects. However, with the Nikons, this still was not 100% satisfactory. It was very hard for me to constantly keep them in a position that would not create shading effects. This improved considerably after I removed the Kowa's eye cups and placed them over the eye cups of the Nikons, thus preventing the eye pieces from sinking too deep into my eye sockets.

Optical impressions
This is of course by no means a scientific research. You can get plenty of that on the sites mentioned at the beginning of my post. However, in the next few lines I will try to verify some of the statements I found there. Despite the fact that the Kowa 8.5x44 has got almost 10% more light collecting area than the Nikon 8x42 and its light transmission is rated 94% in allbinos.com as compared to the 87% of the Nikon, I found the Nikon to be a touch brighter, even under low light conditions. Of course the Nikon 8x32 is not as bright as the other two, but I was surprised to see how good the low light performance of this device actually is, not lagging far behind the two bigger binos.

As indicated in other reports, both Nikons show blur only at a greater distance from the centre of the field of view than the Kowa. However, the performance of the Kowa in this respect is still better than the performance of my naked eye, and because of that I was unable to notice differences between the three contenders in field use.

A testing session in bright sunshine yesterday unveiled the Nikon 8x42's susceptibility to chromatic aberration. When directed towards (of course not directly into) the sun, CA was clearly visible even in the very centre of the FOV, sometimes obscuring details of small targets. CA in the 8x32 was not as strong and appeared also not right in the centre. The Kowa 8,5x44 in comparison showed very well controlled CA (much slighter than the Nikon 8x32's and at much greater distance from the centre of the FOV) which I found not distracting at all.

In one go with the CA I had the chance to evaluate stray light performance. Unfortunately, I found much more unwanted reflections in the FOV of the Nikon 8x32 than I would have liked (to say the least). What a pity! Furthermore, the small depth of focus in combination with the aggressive pitch of the focus wheel of that model made it pretty difficult to focus on small targets, and to keep focus was quite tiring over time. For those reasons, I ruled the Nikon 8x32 out, despite its great price.

Regarding stray light and depth of focus I did not find much difference between the two remaining contenders. One thing I noted is that the Nikon 8x42 seemed to deliver slightly brighter colours than the Kowa 8,5x44. The Kowa instead offered a little bit more detail in the targets I was viewing. Whether that is due to its 0,5 higher magnification I cannot say, writing this now I do not recall having noticed the difference in magnification at all. No "rolling ball" effect on both of them.

So what am I going to do now? If the Nikon HG 8x42 only showed a lesser degree of CA, it would have been a no brainer (maybe there is somebody among you who could confirm that the sample I tested showed some untypical behaviour and a "normal" HG performs much better? In that case I would order another one, along with a pair of Kowa eye cups|;|).

In the meantime however, I got the impression that the Kowa 8,5x44 does not have any flaw as serious as the Nikon 8x42's CA. Since I am not willing to sacrifice flawless optical performance just for nicer body details and 130g less weight, I am leaning towards the Kowa 8,5x44 now. The final decision will be made when I have had a chance to look at (and through) its 8x33 sibling (probably by end of next week). I will post my experience with that one here also.

Peter
 
Last edited:
Peter,

Many thanks for your report, and welcome to the forum!

I have to say on the brief occasions I've been able to try the Kowa it has really impressed (though left me thinking I should get down to the gym more often ;) ). It's a binocular that doesn't get a lot of attention here, but in ability to deliver fine detail I'm not sure I've seen better. I'd formed similar impressions to your comments on the HG as well. I look forward to further updates.

Cheers,

David

Those are excellent prices for the Kowa!!
 
Last edited:
Thank you for your Welcome David!

Your reply indicates that I have obviously looked at important points, thanks for reassuring a binocular Rookie. I do of course not want to spend quite substancial money in the wrong way...

The prices for the Kowas are from another big internet warehouse and from a German retailer who does not publish his prices in the internet. If somebody is interested I can certainly send a pm.

Peter
 
Hi Peter,

the Nikon HG's and the Kowa Genesis/Prominars are virtually each other's antipodes when it comes to CA. I used to own the Nikon HG 10x32 and the Zeiss FL 10x32. The FL is somewhat similar to the Prominars in colour rendition but may possibly be even brighter. Like the Prominars, the FL's have incredibly little CA, and the HG had incredibly much in some situations.

Colour rendition of the FL is fairly neutral although it tends to erase those weakest hints of pink and orange, and the brightness makes the colours look a bit washed-out.
The HG (older model, not "L" designation) had the most incredible colour saturation I have ever seen in any pair of binoculars. Unfortunately the orangey hue made it unsuitable for looking at white birds like gulls and terns, at least that's what I found. Brown birds, though, were rendered so beautifully that I'd call it a revelation.

The Kowas should be pretty well-built but the Nikons give an impression of being virtually indestructible. They were the most substantial pair of binoculars I've ever held and their weight (715 g) is about what a 10x42 should weigh.

If I were in your shoes, I'd probably look twice or thrice on the Zeiss Conquest HD.
There is also the Meopta 10x42 HD and I'm not the only one hoping for the HD designation to spread to the other configurations as well.
You could also try to find a used (or new) Nikon EDG which carries lots of the virtues of the HG's but none of its shortcomings.

I use the Meostar 8x32 at the moment and find it has a little too yellow colour balance for my taste. But it is very sleek and easy to handle, is extremely sharp and does not have much CA. I'll buy the HD version when it's out. Hope this helps.

//L

EDIT: the small diameter eyecups of the Meostars may not be your cup of tea. Perhaps you should look at a Swarovski SLC-HD?
 
Last edited:
Hello looksharp65,

thank you very much for your feedback! You are probably right with the small eye cups on the Meopta, but I gave the Zeiss a try – see my next post...

Peter
 
Update to my first post:

The Kowa genesis 33 arrived on Thursday. It is slightly better padded than its bigger brother, because the rubber does not leave the front edge of the lens tubes exposed. So far so good.

To make a long story short: its optical performance is very similar to the 8.5x44 version: almost no CA, bright image providing a lot of detail, smooth and precise focusing.

And all this at 60% of the weight of the 8,5x44. That really does the trick for me.

To finally put my mind at rest I went to a shop today to look at the Zeiss Victory FL 8x32. Very handy, extremely well padded, perfectly moulded for my hands. Very easy to find the right eye position. Extremely smooth focus. In two words: perfect ergonomics.

But within 10 minutes comparison on an overcast day in an industrial estate I was not able to detect any superiority over the Kowa with regard to optical performance. Then I asked the salesgirl for a nice dark corner (to test the low light performance of the Zeiss, of course). In the darkened storage area I was able to read labels on shoe boxes – with the Kowa, but not with the Zeiss.

So my decision is almost made: I intend to keep the Kowa genesis 8x33.

I found one drawback, however. The eye relief is not 15.5 mm as advertised, but only 12.5 mm. Distance from front edge of the eye cup to the ocular surface is 3.5 mm, and travel of the eye cup is 9 mm. What is however even worse: the day I will need glasses to compensate for my developing presbyopia is not far away...

Now I wonder whether the eye relief will be sufficient for glasses. But do people with presbyopia need to wear glasses when using a binocular? I would be grateful for feedback from folks who are already experiencing this. Thanks!

Peter
 
But do people with presbyopia need to wear glasses when using a binocular? I would be grateful for feedback from folks who are already experiencing this. Thanks!

Peter

If you're a presbyope you will not need spectacles when using your binoculars.
All focusing is done with the knob anyway.

//L
 
Looksharp wrote: The HG (older model, not "L" designation) had the most incredible colour saturation I have ever seen in any pair of binoculars. Unfortunately the orangy hue made it unsuitable for looking at white birds like gulls and terns, at least that's what I found. Brown birds, though, were rendered so beautifully that I'd call it a revelation.

Have you tried the HGL? I thought the colors with the original HGs to be more true to life than the HGLs, where reds were quite orangy and blues looked a bit purplish.

With the HGL, colors (and detail) washed out on brightly lit objects. And unlike the HGs, the armoring on the HGLs was so soft that even with light handling, it started showing signs of wear after only two weeks!

I agree with you about the color saturation in the HGs. I haven't seen any bin that could beat it except perhaps the EDG, which holds up better on the blue side of the spectrum, making not just reds intense but also blues more vivid. As you mentioned, the EDG takes the HG and improves on its weak points - the CA and more true to life colors since the spectrum is flatter than the HG although there still is a slight bump in the red. But it is much more expensive these days, so if one is not sensitive to CA, the HGL is a great buy.

Unfortunately, for me, the full sized models also showed intense "Rolling Ball." So I sold the 10x42 and kept the 8x32 even though like Peter, I found the 8x32 uncomfortable to hold due to the curved strap lugs that forced my hand too far forward so that my palm stuck out beyond the barrels, and then the barrels tapered in as they went toward the objectives, leaving me little "meat" to grip underneath.

I also found the focuser too fast. Still, I stuck with them for three years because of the color saturation and the fact that in the cold (which we are having tonight, 15* F. 10* with the wind chill), the focusers on my porros would stiffen up and become hard to turn whereas I had the 8x32 HG out in 0* F and the focuser still turned smoothly.

The internal focus certainly provided an advantage in the winter, but the winter also brought out the worst with the CA.

I eventually traded the HGs for an 8x32 SE, and still use an 8x32 SE, though a more recent model, though not in very cold weather because of the external focuser.

Two days ago, there were still robins in the park. I also saw a bluebird and a number of cedar waxwings.

<B>
 
Warning! This thread is more than 11 years ago old.
It's likely that no further discussion is required, in which case we recommend starting a new thread. If however you feel your response is required you can still do so.

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top