Falcon, Fife, Scotland 30/8/14 (1 Viewer)

Stonefaction · Mar 15, 2020

Going through old photos I rediscovered photos of a falcon that I eventually decided (at the time) must just have been a rather oddly shaped Peregrine, but which has bothered me any time I've seen the photo since. My blog-post for the day says that the bird was thought to be a Kestrel (and was very slim looking) before it was photographed. The first photo in particular looks very long winged and the tail is surely too narrow for a Peregrine - though in later photos the wings look quite wide at the base - which I think is why I decided it must be a Peregrine (and basis of probability).
So, is it a juvenile Hobby?

None of the photos are particularly good, but I have included the really bad ones too for completeness. Unfortunately I have deleted the RAW files so can't make them any better.

Stonefaction · Mar 15, 2020

The rest of the photos....

Rotherbirder · Mar 15, 2020

You were correct first time. Looks like a straightforward Peregrine to me.

RB

kahraba · Mar 15, 2020

juvenile Hobby for me : way too slender for peregrine and juv. peregrine would show barred undertail coverts, wouldn't it ?

KenM · Mar 16, 2020

If I was to ascribe “Classic” to a Peregrine I certainly wouldn’t use this example. I too would favour Hobby over the former. Subject bird appears sleek with attenuating wings and tail, seemingly to lack any bulk that one would normally attribute to Peregrine.

Cheers

Rotherbirder · Mar 16, 2020

Tricky bird on a small screen. In some shots (4, 6 & 8) the wing bases look too broad for Hobby, even a juv and it looks 'chesty' enough for male Peregrine - certainly going on my local birds which I see very regularly. The shape of the 'hood' isn't easy to assess either but in 6 it doesn't appear to drop down behind the eye as it does in Hobby, but this could be due to the attitude of the head. Distinct pale tips are visible on the greater coverts in some shots which I would agree favours Hobby over Peregrine. I retract my initial comment - not as straightforward given a better look. Image 8 is 'classic' Peregrine Ken.

RB

SJC · Mar 16, 2020

Peregrine for me too!

BobbitWorm45 · Mar 16, 2020

and me

SteveClifton · Mar 16, 2020

I must admit to having to have a really hard look at this one, and have come back to it several times. Each time I've come back to the same conclusion: Peregrine.

You'd normally expect this pair to be much easier, but I think this apparent sleekness is partly attributed to the images being 'burned out' round the edges, which often happens when subjects have been photographed against such a pale sky. This tends to strip away some of the bulk associated with a Peregrine, thus giving a false impression.

I even went as far as copying a few images of juv Peregrine and Hobby for a side by side comparison (but won't attach them here for copyright reasons). I couldn't find an image of juv Hobby with breast and belly barring as light as this bird (Hobby tends to have much bolder markings than Peregrine, and they are typically aligned into more obvious, heavy 'tram-lines' ).

Furthermore, most images of juv Hobby I could find tended to show a darker, un-barred outer 'hand', whereas Peregrines tend to have more evenly barred outer primaries, almost right out to the tip (as in this bird).

The rear face pattern and moustache shape also suit Peregrine more in my experience, though I accept it's not easy to get a real impression of the true face pattern as the head is angled away from us in most of the pictures.

Stonefaction · Mar 16, 2020

Thanks, folks. Glad to see that the discussion has pretty much mirrored my own journey to reaching a conclusion about the bird. I've still got slight reservations about it - but it went on the list for the day as a Peregrine anyway, which is the consensus here.

Steve - I read back my blog-post from the day before posting these photos and the bird was initially thought to be a Kestrel (before taking the photos) as it was such a slim looking bird (first photo shows this impression best) so I don't think the apparent slimness is just a photo/lighting issue - it actually was a slim looking bird. The bird does have a rather slim pointed tail which isn't something I've seen on a Peregrine but I did find some photos which weren't as slim/pointed but were further in that direction than the usual Peregrine shaped tail.

SteveClifton · Mar 16, 2020

Stonefaction said:
Steve - I read back my blog-post from the day before posting these photos and the bird was initially thought to be a Kestrel (before taking the photos) as it was such a slim looking bird (first photo shows this impression best) so I don't think the apparent slimness is just a photo/lighting issue - it actually was a slim looking bird. The bird does have a rather slim pointed tail which isn't something I've seen on a Peregrine but I did find some photos which weren't as slim/pointed but were further in that direction than the usual Peregrine shaped tail.

Point taken, and yes, I can see that even for a Peregrine it's still a small, slightly built bird. However, if you juxtapose some images of Hobby next to your bird, you should see that Hobby is usually a proportionately bigger-headed, smaller-bodied bird.

Stonefaction · Mar 16, 2020

I've only ever seen 2 Hobbys (both adults), so my experience of the species is very limited - though I somehow knew that the first was a Hobby from a split-second view as the bird flew out of sight behind some trees (thankfully it did come back and showed brilliantly confirming my initial 'feeling').

The first photos is the one that had me wondering most - there is a bit of a tramline effect to the underside markings that isn't anywhere near as obvious in later pics. I think one of the things that I ended up basing the ID on was the apparent bulk of the legs/feet and position of them relative to the body/tail (using my few Hobby flight pics to compare).

Incidentally, looking for some Peregrine photos of my own to compare the bird with I found a couple with a similarly narrow/pointed tail and a few similar poses, so I'm now happy (again) with Peregrine for the ID.

tconzemi · Mar 16, 2020

a few points to consider
huge feet
P10 longer than P8
upper breast less streaked than lowe (in Hobby vice versa)
norther type long distance migrants much slimmer than our Peregrines

SteveClifton · Mar 16, 2020

tconzemi said:
a few points to consider
huge feet
P10 longer than P8
upper breast less streaked than lowe (in Hobby vice versa)
norther type long distance migrants much slimmer than our Peregrines

What kept you?

tconzemi · Mar 16, 2020

SteveClifton said:
What kept you?

managing a vet hospital with vets and nurses from France, Belgium and Germany, stuck at the bordrer or in quarantine, shut down in Luxembourg etc etcetera (but it is still e very slim Peregrine indeed)

KenM · Mar 16, 2020

tconzemi said:
managing a vet hospital with vets and nurses from France, Belgium and Germany, stuck at the bordrer or in quarantine, shut down in Luxembourg etc etcetera (but it is still e very slim Peregrine indeed)

Yes a ''Classic'' anorexic example.

kahraba · Mar 17, 2020

I am convinced now, this must have been a peregrine. Quite an unusual looking bird. Thank you all !

Falcon, Fife, Scotland 30/8/14 (1 Viewer)

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