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Swaro's answer to the Victory SF? (1 Viewer)

I have wondered about the development of binoculars. With today's technology the limit of possible performance is very close to be reached. 96% light transmission. Sharp to the very edges. Practically no glares or inner reflections. Still not all these attributes are available in the same model of binoculars. This is understandable for some reasons.
The highest light transmission demands porro or Abbe-König prisms and a simple eyepiece design. Some of the new alpha binoculars are designed for a good weight balance and a sharp image at the edges. This means advanced eyepiece design and Schmidt-Pechan prisms=at most ~90% light transmission. Not wrong with that. But still I wonder: even a model like for example Swarovski Svarovision, which according to some opinions is class leading in as well center and edge sharpness has some serious drawbacks who probably can't be explained by the above mentioned factors.

I remember when I tried Zeiss and Swarovski 20 years ago. While cheaper optics showed visible parts of the prisms around the exit pupils the surrounding of the exit pupils of these alphas were just black. It was like a sign of an alpha. But today, an edge technology model as Svarovision shows the same visible light reflections around the exit pupil as budget models. Also I read that the Swarovisions suffer from some glares in the field of view.
While some improvements are achieved compared to before there are some things who have become worse. Why? If Swarovski really wanted to offer the optically best possible binocular, it should have been made without glares and with Abbe-König prisms.

Is the explanation that Swarovski don't want to yet reach the "perfect" level even if they could? By earning more money by offer more improved models during the years? Like the reason that the pole vaulter Sergey Bubka improved his world records by single centimeters each time while he surely had been able to improve several centimeters at once?

Just curious. Because I have considered to get some of these alphas in order to never more have a reason to get anything new. I mean: several times cheaper optics use to be criticised for an issue the latest alpha suffers from.

Yes, that's a perfect summary of the present situation. Lots of compromises, and lots of compromises that have a negative influence on the image quality and mechanical reliability of binoculars. Schmidt-Pechan prisms, more problems with glare than many of the older binoculars (with far inferior coatings), mechanical problems with focusers that were unheard of 20 years ago, problems with QC that can no doubt be attributed to the ever increasing complexity of the designs. And the list goes on.

Flat fields, very short focusing distances, "ergonomic designs" like open bridges and compact bodies and so on obviously don't come for free. And by that I don't mean the ever increasing prices of binoculars that are bordering on the ridiculous by now.

Hermann
 
... If Swarovski really wanted to offer the optically best possible binocular, it should have been made without glares and with Abbe-König prisms.

Maybe they've already done it. Although it's of no interest to birders the 8x56 SLC should be the most transparent and glare free of the Swarovskis.
 
Maybe they've already done it. Although it's of no interest to birders the 8x56 SLC should be the most transparent and glare free of the Swarovskis.

I can see your point. Did you have a chance to try the 8x56 yet?

Sure, it's probably not really the ideal pair for birdwatching (like your own 8x56 FL ... ;), but the optical quality should be top-notch.

Hermann
 
Hi Hermann,

No, unfortunately I probably won't have a chance to try the 8x56 SLC since it's not sold in the US. I did see a set of star-test images that indicated pretty high aberrations at full aperture (just like the 8x56 FL), but I agree that a good unit is almost certain to be optically top-notch when stopped down in daylight and the 7mm exit pupil should keep most glare out of the eye (just as it does in the 8x56 FL), even if the internal baffling is no different from other Swarovskis.

Maybe you could try out a pair and tell us what you think of it compared to the smaller 8x Swarovskis.

Henry
 
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Thanks for your comments to my post.

Maybe I expressed myself a bit hard. But I just find it a bit strange that even some of the top of the line binos today are not more "perfect". As I mentioned: much less expensive models can receive critic for, for example, inner reflections/glares.
I really don't believe any of the newest Zeiss, Leica or Swarovski would make me disappointed, anyway.
But when I wonder if I should invest in a few new high end binoculars in order to never more needing to buy any better the question is: should I wait a few years more or will today's top models be good enough?...
 
I think you have to be aware of the fact that any of the Alpha glasses will give you magnificent images, and probably outlast you.

Also, some of the folks here would be able to find flaws in a free weekend in heaven, so go forth, look, buy, and enjoy.

Waiting for perfection is futile.
 
I think you have to be aware of the fact that any of the Alpha glasses will give you magnificent images, and probably outlast you.

Also, some of the folks here would be able to find flaws in a free weekend in heaven, so go forth, look, buy, and enjoy.

Waiting for perfection is futile.

Thank you for your reply, I like your attitude and point of view! :t:
 
I have wondered about the development of binoculars. With today's technology the limit of possible performance is very close to be reached. 96% light transmission. Sharp to the very edges. Practically no glares or inner reflections. Still not all these attributes are available in the same model of binoculars. This is understandable for some reasons.
The highest light transmission demands porro or Abbe-König prisms and a simple eyepiece design. Some of the new alpha binoculars are designed for a good weight balance and a sharp image at the edges. This means advanced eyepiece design and Schmidt-Pechan prisms=at most ~90% light transmission. Not wrong with that. But still I wonder: even a model like for example Swarovski Svarovision, which according to some opinions is class leading in as well center and edge sharpness has some serious drawbacks who probably can't be explained by the above mentioned factors.

I remember when I tried Zeiss and Swarovski 20 years ago. While cheaper optics showed visible parts of the prisms around the exit pupils the surrounding of the exit pupils of these alphas were just black. It was like a sign of an alpha. But today, an edge technology model as Svarovision shows the same visible light reflections around the exit pupil as budget models. Also I read that the Swarovisions suffer from some glares in the field of view.
While some improvements are achieved compared to before there are some things who have become worse. Why? If Swarovski really wanted to offer the optically best possible binocular, it should have been made without glares and with Abbe-König prisms.

Is the explanation that Swarovski don't want to yet reach the "perfect" level even if they could? By earning more money by offer more improved models during the years? Like the reason that the pole vaulter Sergey Bubka improved his world records by single centimeters each time while he surely had been able to improve several centimeters at once?

Just curious. Because I have considered to get some of these alphas in order to never more have a reason to get anything new. I mean: several times cheaper optics use to be criticised for an issue the latest alpha suffers from.

Well, it's like Dr. Gobbler said below...
 
Thanks for your comments to my post.

Maybe I expressed myself a bit hard. But I just find it a bit strange that even some of the top of the line binos today are not more "perfect". As I mentioned: much less expensive models can receive critic for, for example, inner reflections/glares.
I really don't believe any of the newest Zeiss, Leica or Swarovski would make me disappointed, anyway.
But when I wonder if I should invest in a few new high end binoculars in order to never more needing to buy any better the question is: should I wait a few years more or will today's top models be good enough?...

The main thing IMO is that you get a sample you are happy with. This is possible today, but nothing to be taken for granted if your vision is very good.

Except QC, glare remains the biggest issue IMO, Zeiss SF and HT are a bit better than the rest, but not by much. In fact, all premium binos I compared look surprisingly horrible in low backlight/against evening sun. I´m referring to the latest 8/8.5x42s by Zeiss, Swaro, Leica. No idea if any revolutionary technological progress could achieve a much better performance in the near future.
 
It´s so ironic the Zeiss SF copies the SVs outer design, but optically has a really different approach. IMO the Zeiss SF is not a flat field design at all (at least if I take the Swarovision as a role model). For good - better 3D than the SV - and for bad - much worse edge performance. Edge performance of the SF is right inbetween the classic binos like HT, Ultravid, SLC, and the still revolutionary Swarovision. I believe this truth to be self-evident. This is one price for extreme wide-angle.

Street price difference of SF and SV, in Europe SF is 400.- more expensive at the moment. It will be very difficult for Zeiss to keep that price if the hype ends and people start to actually compare both models side by side. One thing the SF definitely lacks is perfect colours, IMO they need to get rid of the yellowgreen contrast enhancing cast and do it just like the SV does. By sheer manufacturing quality. Sorry, now I turned your question the other way round.

Swarovski can improve details about the SV but never ever ever can they sell it cheaper. The 8.5x42 could need: A little bit better flare control maybe which is probably difficult enough. HT glass, yes, a bit more high transmission sparkle, to keep up with HT, Ultravid Plus. But SF would need that, too. Rolling ball is superbly controlled compared to the SF. OK, the focusing knob, could it be as good as in an Ultravid??? Yes, they should really go for that. And slightly warmer colours, as in most of the others, and their own SLC.

What Swaroski also should do is kill the now compromised SLC 8x/10x42 design - I mean, about 500.- reduction in price compared to the predecessor, where does that possibly come from? - and relaunch the SLC line as an evolution of their pre-Swarovision El line as the alternative to the Swarovision. Of course they knew exactly what they did and wanted to cater for a market segment that can still spend 1400.- but not 1950.-. Small segment, probably. Ok, leave the SLC where it is, and have a third line, the EL classic. The premium alternative for people who need as much 3D a roof prism can possibly yield. More and more people get aware of the disadvantages of flat field and should be catered for. A new EL non Swarovision 8x32 would obviously be great. And why not have a new 8x/10x42 EL CLASSIC or whatever they want to call it with AK prisms. If I carry that weight anyway, I don´t mind a slightly longer glass. The Zeiss HT 8x42 is an exciting glass in a way the SLC 8x42 is clearly not.

And of course they really must design a modern premium porro line. Habicht MK2 with long eye relief and good glare control. They sell more stuff than the others, so let them give us really the best stuff for all tastes. They could easily do it. Even Swarovision critics might start to love them for that and even start to buy binoculars from them.

If you say "Swaros answer to the Zeiss SF", what exactly was the SF supposed to do? That statement really only makes sense if the SF were a revolutionary improvement on the SV, or the Zeiss slogans were totally true. The SF has a different design philosophy, although aimed at the same market - birders primarily. Then again, the hunting market (so I´m told) is much bigger than nature observation, but that might change...
 
Not sure the answer is needed; it is already there in the market in the shape of EL range. I see no RB on my new EL 8.5x42 and the focus wheel is buttery smooth. The binocs are just about perfect from my POV - not sure what I could ask for more to make me see better, a better observer and make the whole experience a lot more enjoyable. Moving the focus wheel slightly forward (like the Victory SF) would be the only improvement I could desire without nitpicking.
 
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