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Flaming squirrels!!!!! (1 Viewer)

If you discharge an air weapon in your garden you may be committing an offence - if there is the possibility that a stray pellet can injure passers-by you will be prosecuted. A big anti airgun campaign up here in Scottsville just now - few kiddies been fatally injured with them. I have one and I also have a Squirrel problem but would not even consider it -too risky and irresponsible in my opinion ( for me - walkway at back of house). Little bas.turds have chewed through RSPB Squirrel proof mesh ! However, if I could only sort out the feckin Feral pigeons I would be content.


Linz
 
Should we be actually discussing about shooting wildlife it has has much right as living as me and you.

Must say I am taken aback about Alan & Madmikes comments about the best type of gun. I thought in the UK we were trying to get rid of all types of guns, not encouraging people to take a shot at wildlife as an excuse for keeping them.
 
Alan Seaton said:
By all means shoot the squirrel. And if, as said above, another replaces it, then get out the rifle again - and again - and again. If more people did this then our reds may at least have a chance of avoiding extinction.


I have to say I was absolutely SHOCKED by this comment, and the replies discussing types of guns.

I thought this was a forum for people to share their passion for wildlife, not discuss how to destroy it and make it suffer in the process.

I f you put out food, you cannot pick and choose who eats it, you can only try and control it the best you can. Which is what you should be doing until you find away to stop the squirrels eating the food, and there is a way for every situation. Just take the time to try and figure it out. Squirrels cannot read signs that say 'BIRDS ONLY'.

Have some respect. Only humans don't deserve it.
 
If you have pole feeders put plenty of grease 2/3rds up the pole, I find this very successful to stop the squirrels, they attempt to climb but soon have to admit defeat and is harmless to them.
 
Marmot, Laura:

in an ideal world, there'd be no need for this discussion, but grey squirrels are cute vermin, and the only way to give our native reds any chance is to consider all options - like shooting greys.

This is exactly the same issue as the "polecat ferret" thread, and the same rules apply: they're non-indigenous, they're a critical threat to native wildlife, and they've got to go.

I also agree however, that there's little point in trying to exterminate a garden's-worth of greys, because nature abhors a vacuum.
 
i was fighting a losing battle with the greys,destroying feeders also nests aswell so a friend of mine came along with a powerful air rifle and shot them, he took them home and roasted them, said they taste like chicken.
 
I am on the side of never killing a living thing, and if you simply injure them they will run away and die horribly from infections. I cannot imagine anyone who loves birds would inflict such horror on an innocent animal ... and they are innocent.

It is the humans who cultivated them in the first place who should be shot and yet that is against the law.

It is not that hard to deal with squirrels, by using squirrel guards, by ensuring that the squirrels have a place to feed and will find food there, away from the feeders. Instead of getting bloodthirsty just do some lateral thinking and choose the non murderous alternative!

Okay, having said that, I have grey squirrels who visit and entertain and they are so well catered that the birds come and feed at the same time .. they do not even chase them off anymore. Today a Eurasian Jay and two starling shared the same food table as one of the squirrels and there was no hassle. I do not have red squirrels in the area though and I do appreciate there is a problem.

None of the squirrels has ever damaged one of my feeders. They are just too well fed!

But for heaven's sake, while there may have to be humane, expert methods of dealing with grey squirrels to ensure the survival of the red squirrel, to think of shooting a poor creature with an insufficient weapon (if at all!) just because of damage to a feeder? That is so out of perspective.
 
I have never had a problem with the squirrels feeding from my feeders as they are right next to the house it was the other damage that they caused that was the problem.They destroyed nest boxes and ate the eggs,tore up bulbs,stripped the apples and plums off the trees and have done severe damage to other trees in the woods and my neighbour had them in his loft.When we first moved in they were already visiting the garden and the previous owner never fed the birds so you can't say they were encouraged to visit.
 
tiomet said:
I am on the side of never killing a living thing, and if you simply injure them they will run away and die horribly from infections. I cannot imagine anyone who loves birds would inflict such horror on an innocent animal ... and they are innocent.

It is the humans who cultivated them in the first place who should be shot and yet that is against the law.

It is not that hard to deal with squirrels, by using squirrel guards, by ensuring that the squirrels have a place to feed and will find food there, away from the feeders. Instead of getting bloodthirsty just do some lateral thinking and choose the non murderous alternative!

Okay, having said that, I have grey squirrels who visit and entertain and they are so well catered that the birds come and feed at the same time .. they do not even chase them off anymore. Today a Eurasian Jay and two starling shared the same food table as one of the squirrels and there was no hassle. I do not have red squirrels in the area though and I do appreciate there is a problem.

None of the squirrels has ever damaged one of my feeders. They are just too well fed!

But for heaven's sake, while there may have to be humane, expert methods of dealing with grey squirrels to ensure the survival of the red squirrel, to think of shooting a poor creature with an insufficient weapon (if at all!) just because of damage to a feeder? That is so out of perspective.

The problem with the "all animals have a right to live" argument is that it is usually selective. We dominate nature, which takes away food and habitat from other creatures, denying them a right to life. In the UK humans wiped out the Wolf, the Bear and other creatures centuries ago. Others fell forests to create land to grow crops that we import and buy. Similarly we farm animals, often keeping them in cruel conditions, and then kill and eat them. Presumbly those who argue against killing squirrels are vegans who never buy any product that in any way deprived animals of a life (an impossible task).

Some while back there was an interesting programme on Radio 4 about squirrel eating in the American south. Apparently one way is to roast the heads and then eat the brains. I think I'll give it a miss.

Leif
 
What I would do....seeing as us humans are supposed to be the 'superior' species.....is work out ways to make things as tricky as possible for the Greys......and put a feeder out for them so they'll, hopefully, leave the bird ones alone.
Make an assault course for them like in the tv ads - at least it'll keep them occupied trying to crack it and you entertained!
Certainly would never resort to killing them just because they are taking advantage of an easy food source....vermin is such a commonly bandied word about other animals these days when, to me, the REAL vermin are the ones like those idiots who attacked me a few weeks ago and stole my bins and scope - but, apparently, it's VERY non-pc to criticise your fellow humans these days, no matter what they do! :C

AS a last resort.....don't feed the birds. ;)

Gill
 
Haven't we had this same stupid argument with Sparrowhawks .
I can't believe your all serious wildlife watchers. If you don't want to see squirrels in your garden don't put any food out. Otherwise stop complaining and just accept that when you put something into the natural environment you dont always get the result you want.
 
The problem with the "all animals have a right to live" argument is that it is usually selective. We dominate nature, which takes away food and habitat from other creatures, denying them a right to life.

You are right, but choosing to live in an urban environment that likely took away wild life habitat, does not negate the right to live it simply highlights a conflict between humans and wildlife. All animals do have a right to live, including humans, but that right is often violated.

I am not a vegan, but I am a vegetarian - verging on macrobiotic. However, that does not mean that meat eaters do not also recognise and vociferously support the right to life.

It is an old argument to combat the ethics of rights with the argument that people, in other contexts, violate that right. It is a complex argument that deserves more than a simplistic response.

If we followed the simple premise that we cannot support right to life because we started clearing woodlands to build suburbs then we are saying that none of us are allowed to assert ethics, that we should accept any denial of rights because we are culpable. Yet all of us here, at least, have numerous feeding stations and accept that we chopped down trees and desecrated bird areas. We do that for any number of reasons, one of which is that we recognise our culpability and support the bird's rights to survive and live in spite of human progress.

And we created other numerous problems, like the grey squirrel problem. Because we created it we should be obliged to deal with it humanely, rather than deny animal rights and start beating our breasts and rushing around yelling for their elimination... because they are a pest and bother us some!
 
tiomet said:
The problem with the "all animals have a right to live" argument is that it is usually selective. We dominate nature, which takes away food and habitat from other creatures, denying them a right to life.

You are right, but choosing to live in an urban environment that likely took away wild life habitat, does not negate the right to live it simply highlights a conflict between humans and wildlife. All animals do have a right to live, including humans, but that right is often violated.

I am not a vegan, but I am a vegetarian - verging on macrobiotic. However, that does not mean that meat eaters do not also recognise and vociferously support the right to life.

It is an old argument to combat the ethics of rights with the argument that people, in other contexts, violate that right. It is a complex argument that deserves more than a simplistic response.

If we followed the simple premise that we cannot support right to life because we started clearing woodlands to build suburbs then we are saying that none of us are allowed to assert ethics, that we should accept any denial of rights because we are culpable. Yet all of us here, at least, have numerous feeding stations and accept that we chopped down trees and desecrated bird areas. We do that for any number of reasons, one of which is that we recognise our culpability and support the bird's rights to survive and live in spite of human progress.

And we created other numerous problems, like the grey squirrel problem. Because we created it we should be obliged to deal with it humanely, rather than deny animal rights and start beating our breasts and rushing around yelling for their elimination... because they are a pest and bother us some!

We aren't all vegetarians and we aren't all Buddhists. I've been included in a post above as some kind of nature hater. Nothing could be further from the truth, but I do passionately believe that grey squirrels should be actively denied access to previously grey-free areas, such as Northumberland and Cumbria and that areas where they are flourishing should make efforts into reducing their numbers. I believe that people who think they are cute and feed them are contributing to the extiction of our native red squirrel. There is nothing noble in that!

Wildlife trusts countrywide are encouraging efforts to preserve red squirrels including the eradication of greys and, as I've said above it is illegal to release one alive once trapped. This is because they are classed as vermin. That's the law, not my opinion. They are no different to brown rats in the eyes of the law, but because they have the aesthetic benefit of a fluffy, rather than bald tail, the Walt Disney factor kicks in and they are "cute".

Well they aren't. They are vermin, specifically (from my point of view) because they are contributing to the extinction of red squirrels.

I appreciate that for most of the country greys are all there are, but this is simply a demonstration of the extent of the damage already caused. Fortunately, I can still walk out of the door, walk less than a mile and still have a good chance of seeing red squirrels. My dream is that the rest of the country should also be able to do this.

But as long as people feed grey squirrels they are contributing to the early extiction of reds. They wouldn't encourage rats, so why feed their equivalent?

And to those who say they were introduced by humans and it's not the squirrels' fault, I agree, but it's our responibility to redress the wrongs of our ancestors and the greys will be the necessary casualties of their folly.

If we don't, WE are killing the reds. Do you want that on YOUR conscience?

That's why I say "shoot the 'squirrel'".

As the man said, "If you aren't part of the solution. you're part of the problem".
 
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I don't know the official population estimates for my part of the world (London) nor if the local mammal recorder even receives records of Grey Squirrels but I do know that they are clearly (and obviously) thriving, thanks to man ... it's not much of an exagerration to say that you can't walk through certain stretches of the Royal Parks without being followed by small scavenging groups or pairs on the look out for the usual totally innapropriate food items (how about bread, crisps and even a walnut whip!), it's also not rare for one to literally jump up onto a person at knee height then run right up towards the shoulder ... all-round bizarre really ... they do a great job of chewing up an awful lot of nestlings too, baby Starling being a favoured meal
 
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Richard's answered your post probably better than I can, but as you addressed it to me . . .


turkish van said:
Sorry, but I have to defend the squirrels here.

For a start, what exactly would you categorize as 'vermin'? If badger numbers increased, would they then be vermin? Hedgehogs? Red squirrels even?

I don't think I mentioned the word 'vermin'. You did that.


turkish van said:
Secondly, the only reason the grey squirrel is an alien species is because WE introduced them, along with many other things. The squirrels are surviving and have increased in numbers because they have a varied diet, they can live in many places and climates and are very adaptable. As are humans. Which is why we have spread ourselves in huge numbers all over the globe, resulting in the demise of MANY other species. If there were a creature higher than humans, would you think 'fair enough' if they started shooting us down?

Introducing Greys was wrong, not controlling them is wrong - two wrongs don't make a right. Harping on about what we do to the rest of the planet is irrelevant in a post about whether or not to control Greys.


turkish van said:
Lastly it is all too easy to blame the grey squirrel for the decreasing red squirrel population. I think the fact is that red squirrel and grey squirrel habitats rarely overlap, and where they do the two species live in perfect harmony, because they occupy different niches. The red squirrel has a specific diet it needs to survive, and a specific habitat. As I said before, the greys are very adaptable, and probably don't have any significant negative effect on the red squirrel niche. At the end of the day only humans again are to blame for red squirrel drops, not because of introducing greys, but because of the huge destruction of the only areas red squirrels can inhabit and survive in.

Kindly read this thread:

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=7077&highlight=saluki+squirrel


turkish van said:
Sorry, I know all the other posts were in good humour (I hope!), but this gets me a tad worked up!!

Me too - how do you feel about Mink Laura?

saluki
 
LewisSpar said:
I've had enough of the bloody grey squirrels im my garden destroying my expensive birdfeeders and eating all the peanuts. I've come to the decision that its time to pull out the air pistol and pump them full of lead, i know this is a drastic measure but it really is at that point. Your views would be most welcome on this matter should i, shouldn't i or have you?


Well, seeing you have had enough of these wicked squirrels stealing your peanuts,(oh the shame of it!) perhaps it is time to take down those expensive birdfeeders of yours, the squirrels will stop visiting your garden, (so will the birds), but never mind you will save money and thats obviously more important to you than the local wildlife.
 
Should I shoot the squirrel?

Why not show your superior intellect and devise ways round the problem? It really isn't too hard. After all, it's only a small mammal fighting for survival in the only way it knows how.
Good luck,
John
 
We aren't all vegetarians and we aren't all Buddhists.

I am not a vegan, but I am a vegetarian - verging on macrobiotic. However, that does not mean that meat eaters do not also recognise and vociferously support the right to life.

I believe that people who think they are cute and feed them are contributing to the extiction of our native red squirrel. There is nothing noble in that!

I do not think it is noble to support the right to life, I think it is humane and absolute bedrock. There is `no holier than thou` assumption in the argument that all life has a right (yes red squirrels too).

People who have squirrels visiting their gardens because they feed birds are not feeding the squirrels, they are feeding the birds. The people who throw treats to the squirrels in the park when it is signposted not to are irresponsible .. why do you not shoot them as they are at fault - not the squirrels?

Wildlife trusts countrywide are encouraging efforts to preserve red squirrels including the eradication of greys and, as I've said above it is illegal to release one alive once trapped.

Therefore you should kill them with a less than adequate weapon in uncontrolled environments? If the situation exists that wildlife authorities support the killing of an animal then all stops should be pulled out to ensure that the cause is just and the solution humane.

have the aesthetic benefit of a fluffy, rather than bald tail, the Walt Disney factor kicks in and they are "cute".

Some people would say do not kill them because they are cute, little fluffy ickle bunnies. Using emotive phraseology like this does not negate the right to life argument. Even were they the ugliest creature on earth I would still be arguing in their defence.

Well they aren't. They are vermin, specifically (from my point of view) because they are contributing to the extinction of red squirrels.

The red squirrel also has a right to life.

Fortunately, I can still walk out of the door, walk less than a mile and still have a good chance of seeing red squirrels. My dream is that the rest of the country should also be able to do this.

That would be nice, and does not prove an argument for grabbing a gun and shooting grey squirrels. It recognises that there is a problem and a solution must be sought that introduces controls and containment.

But as long as people feed grey squirrels they are contributing to the early extiction of reds. They wouldn't encourage rats, so why feed their equivalent?

Squirrels are not rats, they are squirrels and if you tar one type with a brush you also tar the other. Are red squirrels rats? The argument that it is sheer numbers and the ill effect of any overbreeding is that another section of the community suffers is valid. It is convenient to class the overbreeds as vermin so humans can get rid of them.

I was brought up in Africa and saw plenty of culling for the same reason. (not out in the sticks, in and around human habitation where they stole crops and children. Thing is that it was mostly controlled. If there was a problem then the hunters and wardens came and allegedly sorted it (my father was one).

Of course the pigeon problem in London was dealt with in bizarre and cruel ways (netting under the bridges?)

And to those who say they were introduced by humans and it's not the squirrels' fault, I agree, but it's our responibility to redress the wrongs of our ancestors and the greys will be the necessary casualties of their folly.

Humanely, in a controlled and well-thought out way. Not by everyone grabbing inappropriate weaponry and shooting willy nilly. What is next, oh that cat is a problem, let's have a potshot at that too. Oh that hoodie is in my garden scaring my birds and red squirrels, shoot him!

The problem is recognising humane alternatives to controlling the grey squirrel population in order to nurture the continuation of the red.

If we don't, WE are killing the reds. Do you want that on YOUR conscience?

This is not an argument that has any validity. Because I argue the right to life for the grey squirrel, to assert that I am therefore arguing for the death of the red is illogical, not to mention a cheap and emotive jibe for no reason other than you are clearly frustrated.

That's why I say "shoot the 'squirrel'".

And even after people say ... try squirrel bafflers ... try scarers ... try something else ... try to find a humane solution you cannot think beyond shoot the squirrel ?

No one is making you out to be an uncaring monster but there are alternatives that you can explore before you do something monstrous!
 
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