Flaming squirrels!!!!! (1 Viewer)

Val Sullivan · Oct 23, 2005

Squirrels

Excuse me - but I`m new to the site. Just spotted your message after buying a Center Parcs feeder which is so enjoyable. First time I noticed the squirrel trying it out I greased it with vegetable oil and it`s worked a treat.

Val Sullivan.

rseymour said:
I was frustrated trying to keep squirrels out of our feeder. I tried everything, scaring chasing and even vasolining the pole (fun to watch, but eventually up they went).
My wife saved the day by getting a "squirrel proof" feeder. It has a cage that drops down over the feeder holes when the squirrel gets on it. Works great. Every once in a while they test it out, but now mostly minds their own business on the ground. |=)|

Ivor_Frog · Oct 23, 2005

LewisSpar said:
I've had enough of the bloody grey squirrels im my garden destroying my expensive birdfeeders and eating all the peanuts. I've come to the decision that its time to pull out the air pistol and pump them full of lead, i know this is a drastic measure but it really is at that point. Your views would be most welcome on this matter should i, shouldn't i or have you?

In my opinion : NO !!! I have greys in my garden, they became a bit of a pest when trying to take the birds' food so I put a squirrel feeder nearby and it's worked and they stay away from the bird food - well apart from when I forget to fill it ! If you don't feel like doing that then, as people have pointed out, another will surely take its place. Anyway, you might learn to like them, they are very entertaining and clever. The only way in which I find them a problem is that red squirrels can't really exist alongside them, and I think they're ( the Greys ) being killed off in areas where they're a big problem in this way. But I personally wouldn't shoot one in my garden. It's not their fault they're here after all !

turkish van · Oct 23, 2005

john barclay said:
Hi Tim,

I don't own a gun but the gamekeeper does.

We tried all sorts of inventive ideas, all to no avail.

Laura, I think you will agree that squirrels are not welcome in most peoples houses. On inspection they had even chewed through electricity cables and as a fireman (retired) with 31 years service, I know what damage and heartache electrical faults can do.

Sadly the vermin had to go.

John.

Of course I agree they shouldn't be allowed to set up camp in people's houses John, and something drastic has to happen if they've been chewing electricity cables.

All I'm saying is there should be humane alternative to killing in every situation, and everyone should be striving to find it.

Maybe you did the best you could, but sorry, you'll never convince me that what you did was right!

Mary Evelyn · Oct 23, 2005

Alan Seaton said:
I like cats no more than you seem to do. but they are not classed as vermin. Grey squirrels are and the greys don't depend solely on bird tables for their food , they just take advantage of an available food source. Without bird tables they would still flourish, just as they have since they were released into this country. Without active measures to reduce their numbers they will still flourish, but anyone who feeds them is undermining the efforts that are being made to protect the red squirrel.

And I don't see anywhere in my postings where I have said that weapons should be "put into the wrong hands". They are a tool. the same as a hammer. A hammer "in the wrong hands" can do a lot more damage than a .22.

As regards suffering, that is why I specify a "clear shot", and do you imagine a red squirrel dying of hunger or disease induced by grey squirrels doesn't "suffer"?

I do not dislike cats at all,I have 7 cats come into the garden for the birds so I do my best to deter them,that's all, without hurting the cat.

I didn't say I didn't want the squirrel to flourish or otherwise.I said if you don't feed the birds then no food source, no squirrels.

I have already said you may be an expert with a gun, but many are not.

I didn't say you said weapons should be put into the wrong hands.I am saying they often are.
A hammer as someone has already pointed out is not a weapon, anymore than a screwdriver, although both can inflict serious injuries in the hands of a mad man.
A gun is normally(not always) purchased to deliberately shoot and kill.

Your final comment about the red squirrel is I think, supposed to justify what you have stated.It doesn't.

There has been some sound advice given on this thread by people who have not hurt a squirrel ,yet have been successful in detering them.I would hope that their advice was taken, rather than people rushing out and buying an air rifle and taking a pot shot.

tiomet · Oct 24, 2005

Reds suffered from the parapox virus before grey squirrels were even introduced to the UK. And suggesting that red squirrels die of hunger as a direct result of greys is impossible to back up.

Thank you so much for posting this, it destroys the last argument for killing greys.

I was aghast that someone would think of shooting them because they chewed a feeder (honestly! What are you thinking???) and I cannot believe that someone would destroy a creature because they could not extend to thinking of alternative ways to protect property! (why on earth would a squirrel chew through a wire?). Can you really stack the existence of life against a bit of plastic tubing and flex?

But I was concerned about the allegations that grey squirrels are responsible for the demise of all the red squirrels and threatening their extinction.

For practical purposes these have been some useful suggestions:

1) Squirrel bafflers on feeders
2) Squirrel feeding areas distanced from the bird feeding areas
3) Greasing the poles that hold the hanging feeders
4) Distancing feeders from trees and natural climbing and jumping areas
5) If you have more significant problems, like squirrels nesting in the roof of your homes. Clear the nests, block up the access points. There must be a reason they are seeking shelter there, are there no natural available habitats? If not then call in the experts to suggest a solution that does not involve killing?

I think people will shoot squirrels because they do not want to take the more difficult route of thinking about alternatives. So many have been listed here and yet still they persist in supoort of the killing route. I find it repugnant that someone can actually line up a living creature in the sights and put it to death, this is not conditional on alternatives, it is just a very sad indictment on the lack of the way people think at times.

Anntan · Oct 24, 2005

At last Iv'e wone the Squirrel War. For two weeks now the Grey comes into the garden and looks wistfully at the bird feeders and at the tantalising peanuts hanging just out of his jumping reach, he goes to the pole and sniffs at it then shakes his head and wanders away. My neighbour has been catching Grey Squirrels for over two years and has humainly disposed of them but there are always others to take their place. My bird feeders were being destroyed on a regular basis and I was becoming frustrated until I came up with this great idea. First I coated all the poles and feeder rims with Tobasco Sauce but the blighters seemed to enjoy the taiste. Finally on finding an old tin full of axle greese in the shed, I coated the poles with the stuff to about an eighth of an inch thick, then I powdered the whole area with Paprika. The squirrel came along and jumped up the pole in his usual way but got a shock when he slid down, his claws and part of his chest coated slightly with the powdered greese. He licked his paws and you could actualy see him spit, he jumped up onto the bird bath and tried to wash his feet and took a drink, then dashed out of the garden. Next morning I saw him on the lawn below the pole but he didn't jump up, eventualy he decided to climb up the privet hedge and from the top he took a flying leap, trying to reach the table, he misjudged the leap and landed at the base of the pole and I could even hear the knock as he hit it with his jaw, he staggered out of the garden. He comes regularly but hasn't yet attacked the feeders. I think Iv'e wone the war. Paprika is the best weapon against the Grey Squirrel. Try it with the Vasaline if you have no greese.

madmike · Oct 24, 2005

Paprika is an aquired taste! Beware!

Is not this thread a bit 'done to death' (no pun intended!)

Mind you, it has been very entertaining albeit not for the squirrels!

madmike

saluki · Oct 24, 2005

tiomet said:
Reds suffered from the parapox virus before grey squirrels were even introduced to the UK. And suggesting that red squirrels die of hunger as a direct result of greys is impossible to back up.

Thank you so much for posting this, it destroys the last argument for killing greys.

I was aghast that someone would think of shooting them because they chewed a feeder (honestly! What are you thinking???) and I cannot believe that someone would destroy a creature because they could not extend to thinking of alternative ways to protect property! (why on earth would a squirrel chew through a wire?). Can you really stack the existence of life against a bit of plastic tubing and flex?

But I was concerned about the allegations that grey squirrels are responsible for the demise of all the red squirrels and threatening their extinction.

May I point you to here:

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=7077&highlight=saluki+squirrels

and to Richard Bryce's comments on this thread:

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=44025&highlight=squirrel

I couldn't care less about someone's bird feeder. I do, however, take the demise of the Red Squirrel in the UK seriously - some people choose not to.

saluki

tiomet · Oct 24, 2005

I couldn't care less about someone's bird feeder. I do, however, take the demise of the Red Squirrel in the UK seriously - some people choose not to.

I do not think if there is a real and present danger to red squirrels that it should not be taken seriously and the accusation that someone may is unfounded, especially if you read this thread properly.

However, someone has pointed out, as I quoted, that to lay the demise of the red squirrel squarely at the door of the grey is erroneous. I think a great deal of speculation is going on and until the situation is proven so people cannot contest it then there is an hysterical and unecessary reaction.

However, I will never stop asserting that killing the grey out of hand i.e. joining the grab-a-gun brigade is ever an answer and that there are other, more humane measures.

If I take all that is said about the bad influence of the grey squirrel as absolute truth then I still insist that there are humane measures that should be implemented. Why is it that people cannot accept that it is plain wrong to take life, any life (and please do not start that tramping on ants argument)? That has to be an undeniable truth and an underlying premise of any true faith.

saluki · Oct 24, 2005

tiomet said:
However, someone has pointed out, as I quoted, that to lay the demise of the red squirrel squarely at the door of the grey is erroneous. I think a great deal of speculation is going on and until the situation is proven so people cannot contest it then there is an hysterical and unecessary reaction.

However, I will never stop asserting that killing the grey out of hand i.e. joining the grab-a-gun brigade is ever an answer and that there are other, more humane measures.

I'm not interested in someone's trashed birdfeeder, only in Greys out-competing Reds, so in that context, what might those 'more humane' methods be?

saluki

Jos Stratford · Oct 24, 2005

Alan Seaton said:
I would advocate nothing less than a well-maintained .22 air rifle, a clear shot and a safe background. Nothing inhumane there.

I would advocate not being my neighbour. Your passioned delight in eradicating Grey Squirrels in this manner is a one man campaign that will sow little more than a few badly injured squirrels. Either it will be a tiny number of persons who follow your example ...and then it will have no impact whatsoever of the Red Squirrels you claim to have at heart (as Grey Squirrels will remain as common as ever in other gardens - unless you plan to shoot off your neighbours' animals too) or worse it will be quite a lot of people who decide your idea is good - in this case, many will not be the good shot you claim to be and the result will be many injured animals suffering great levels of cruelty. Worse still, if the message goes out that it is okay to shoot the species not desirable in your garden, I wouldn't like to see what Joe Bloggs decides to shoot after having proudly eradicated all his squirrels.

No, if you wish to address the so-called squirrel 'problem', the answer is not to advocate an ad hoc cowboy shooting spree or glee, as seems to be.

Euan Buchan · Oct 24, 2005

Try and get one of these boxes for squirrils like you see on Nature Programmes as Ive said in the other topic they should be availble in Nature shops & Garden Centres

Jos Stratford · Oct 24, 2005

saluki said:
I'm not interested in someone's trashed birdfeeder, only in Greys out-competing Reds, so in that context, what might those 'more humane' methods be?

If Grey Squirrels are deemed a problem that needs to addressed, then any reasonable strategist would look for a concerted national campaign thought out and targeted - for example, as with the Ruddy Ducks (not saying this is right or wrong, but it has been thought out and stands a reasonable chance of achieving its aims). One guy (not you Saluki) coming on a forum and urging everyone grab an air rifle and take a pot shot is going to achieve little other than to inflict needless cruelty. It's like one guy on one lake shooting a couple of Ruddy Duck and then patting himself on his pat and thinking how he saved the Spanish White-headed Ducks

I think any hunter would say a cull should be carried out by experienced marksmen, shame some birders are advocating the opposite.

saluki · Oct 24, 2005

Jos Stratford said:
If Grey Squirrels are deemed a problem that needs to addressed, then any reasonable strategist would look for a concerted national campaign thought out and targeted - for example, as with the Ruddy Ducks (not saying this is right or wrong, but it has been thought out and stands a reasonable chance of achieving its aims). One guy (not you Saluki) coming on a forum and urging everyone grab an air rifle and take a pot shot is going to achieve little other than to inflict needless cruelty. It's like one guy on one lake shooting a couple of Ruddy Duck and then patting himself on his pat and thinking how he saved the Spanish White-headed Ducks

I think any hunter would say a cull should be carried out by experienced marksmen, shame some birders are advocating the opposite.

I'd agree with you to a degree Jos. In Argyll the SNH (if I remember rightly) held a series of lectures attended by landowners, farmers or simply anyone interested, on how and where to set Mink traps. I thought it a good idea as there are far too many Mink (even worse with Greys) to be able to employ professionals to do the culling. At least they had some basic knowledge on what to do. I wouldn't really encourage anyone to buy an air rifle and immediately start to shoot at any living creature however.

saluki

tiomet · Oct 24, 2005

I'm not interested in someone's trashed birdfeeder, only in Greys out-competing Reds, so in that context, what might those 'more humane' methods be?

I would only repeat what Jos said. But ....

My father was a hunter, he taught me that you never kill unless you have to for two reasons only:

1) to provide food, or
2) to remove a threat to human life.

Anything else, he said, was down to nature.

There is a clear danger of the red squirrel being decimated to the point of eradication, and if the problem is the grey squirrels eating all the food, then ensure that the red squirrels have sources of food. I am aware this is a difficult thing to do but I rather think it is a worth tackling rather than simply shooting the the grey.

My father had, on several occasions, to track and mop up the mess less experienced hunters and gun-toting tourists made of animals - when they shot and near missed, leaving the creatures in pain with resulting infection. They take days to die, unable to hunt or defend themselves.

Unless a person is an experienced shot, with a good moral ethic, no gun should be available to him or her. And no amount of frustration or even passion should be able to surmount that.

Edward woodwood · Oct 24, 2005

too much down the pub talk again

the decline of reds is due to greys

http://www.forestserviceni.gov.uk/environment/red_squirrels/causes_of_decliine.htm

I can post hundreds of other links if anyone needs convincing

Tim

saluki · Oct 24, 2005

tiomet said:
There is a clear danger of the red squirrel being decimated to the point of eradication, and if the problem is the grey squirrels eating all the food, then ensure that the red squirrels have sources of food. I am aware this is a difficult thing to do but I rather think it is a worth tackling rather than simply shooting the the grey.

It's far more complex than simply providing more food for Reds. Put simply, personally I want to see Reds increasing in number, and that requires a decrease in the Grey population. This cannot be achieved without culling Greys.

How do you feel about culling Sika Deer (they hybridize with Red), Mink (destroy seabird colonies) or Canada Geese (nest on diver rafts)? Or what about culling Red Deer that destroy habitat, ditto Roe and Muntjack? Part of the reason the Black Grouse Project has been so successful in the North East and why it has failed so far in Argyll is because keepers control predators in the NE, whereas a lot of the ground in Argyll is owned by the FC who don't (now) control predators unless specifically asked to by landowners.

saluki

Edward woodwood · Oct 24, 2005

this explains the situation in a 'populist' way but it's very good.

http://cal.man.ac.uk/student_projects/2002/MNBF9ALS/lecture-15.htm

Tim

birdman · Oct 24, 2005

Jos Stratford said:
I would advocate not being my neighbour. Your passioned delight in eradicating Grey Squirrels in this manner is a one man campaign that will sow little more than a few badly injured squirrels. Either it will be a tiny number of persons who follow your example ...and then it will have no impact whatsoever of the Red Squirrels you claim to have at heart (as Grey Squirrels will remain as common as ever in other gardens - unless you plan to shoot off your neighbours' animals too) or worse it will be quite a lot of people who decide your idea is good - in this case, many will not be the good shot you claim to be and the result will be many injured animals suffering great levels of cruelty. Worse still, if the message goes out that it is okay to shoot the species not desirable in your garden, I wouldn't like to see what Joe Bloggs decides to shoot after having proudly eradicated all his squirrels.

No, if you wish to address the so-called squirrel 'problem', the answer is not to advocate an ad hoc cowboy shooting spree or glee, as seems to be.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

I'm a bit late to this argument, and surprised at the relatively few posters who have not protested at the prospect of shooting squirrels!

Isn't it illegal?????

I don't know LewisSpar, so I cannot comment on the suitability of him personally being an authorised squirrel-killer, and I do believe there is justification in eradicating these exotics - including Sika, mink etc. - but as Jos so eloquently puts it, not by handing guns to every Tom, Dick and Harry to make their own decision!

ebba · Oct 24, 2005

LewisSpar said:
I've had enough of the bloody grey squirrels im my garden destroying my expensive birdfeeders and eating all the peanuts. I've come to the decision that its time to pull out the air pistol and pump them full of lead, i know this is a drastic measure but it really is at that point. Your views would be most welcome on this matter should i, shouldn't i or have you?

In my area we have an extensive deer "problem". I greet my deer family every morning and night but my neighbours are constantly trying to outsmart them. The CD:s are dangling from trees in every garden (i always recommend Cavatina). There is even a house in the midst of the forest with a 3 meter fence around it (type concentration camp) to protect the tulips! Nobody wins in this fight and I don't think you will ever win over your grey squirrels.

Get some inexpensive birdfeeders and buy some more peanuts. Sit down and watch the greys even if they were not invited in the first place....

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