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terrapins from South Africa (1 Viewer)

Steve Babbs

Steve Babbs

Well-known member
Dear all

Can anyone tell me in simple language how to identify serrated hinge tortoise from Cape marsh terrapin? The field guide appears to be in a foreign language to me! I've attached photos of two different individuals.

Thanks

Steve
 

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  • serrated hinged terrapinsmall.jpg
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Marsh Terrapins are quite flate shelled by comparison, the one on the log here is not a Marsh Terrapin, not so sure about the first but it too looks to be too high shelled if you know what I mean!?

Here's a Marsh Terrapin I found for an illustration of the very flattish shell

http://www.surfbirds.com/gallery/search2.php


Andy
 
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OK. After consulting Turtles of the World by Bonin, Devaux and Dupre, 2006, these two genera are really easy - essentially the Cape Marsh Terrapin is a standard, semi-aquatic form - think European Pond Tortoise for shape and lifestyle, and is widely distributed across the whole of South Africa - that's what you've photographed Steve. The Hinge tortoise is a small, terrestrial tortoise - think Spur-thighed or similar, but with a hinge about 2/3 of the way along the back - the change in angle makes people, even vets, think that the animal has been seriously injured. The book restricts K. erosa to West and Central Africa, and lists three species from SA - lobatsiana from Loskop Dam, natalensis from (surprise, surprise) Natal, and belliana from areas around the Kruger. Incidently, although the book does mention common names, there is no index to them; not terribly helpful!
 
andyadcock said:
Marsh Terrapins are quite flate shelled by comparison, the one on the log here is not a Marsh Terrapin, not so sure about the first but it too looks to be too high shelled if you know what I mean!?

Here's a Marsh Terrapin I found for an illustration of the very flattish shell

http://www.surfbirds.com/gallery/search2.php


Andy
Click to expand...

Realised that link is dead, doesn't Steve's seem to have a higher shell than mine which I had ID'd as Marsh Terrapin, perhaps the coating of mud is altering the perception? Even comparing the rear end of Steve's, it seems to climb more steeply, I'm not sure they're the same?



Andy
 

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andyadcock said:
Realised that link is dead, doesn't Steve's seem to have a higher shell than mine which I had ID'd as Marsh Terrapin, perhaps the coating of mud is altering the perception? Even comparing the rear end of Steve's, it seems to climb more steeply, I'm not sure they're the same?



Andy
Click to expand...

I'm not either but I have always found reptiles bizarrely difficult to identify!
 
And I'm guilty of creating more confusion - looked in another book last night - Branch "Snakes and other Reptiles of Southern Africa" and found reference to Hinged Terrapins (not Tortoises) - including 5 species in SA. These have the hinge on the undershell, and look more like our beasties! I think Pelusios sinuatus is the only one with an obvious saw edge to the back of the shell, but bear with me - more to come later today!
 
Welsh Peregrine said:
And I'm guilty of creating more confusion - looked in another book last night - Branch "Snakes and other Reptiles of Southern Africa" and found reference to Hinged Terrapins (not Tortoises) - including 5 species in SA. These have the hinge on the undershell, and look more like our beasties! I think Pelusios sinuatus is the only one with an obvious saw edge to the back of the shell, but bear with me - more to come later today!
Click to expand...

This is obviously what has confused me and this bit isn't 'easy' believe me!

The animal I posted is a Marsh Terrapin, I don't think either of the OP's are?

Andy
 
I have decided all Herptile Field Guide authors need shooting - none of them seem to focus on the features useful to identify specimens - long descriptions without focusing on which features differ, and which may be suggestive! (Or indeed they are contradictory - one species is distinguished by having 5 claws on the front feet, yet later another species is mentioned as possessing the same feature!!!) However, as far as I can tell, the first picture is indeed the Serrated Hinged Terrapin, Pelusios sinuatus, recognised by its saw edge to the rear of the shell, common in rivers, lakes and pans in N. Transvaal and N. Kwazulu Natal. Not quite certain of the second, but happiest with Mashona Hinged Terrapin, P. rhodesianus, which has a more domed shell than other species, and the head pattern seems to fit better - small populations in N. Zululand and Durban - probably replaced in Kruger by Pan H T, P. subniger.
 
Hi, Where exactly did you see these two?
The first I would agree with Welsh... Serrated Hinged Terrapin, Pelusios sinuatus.

The second however I'm not convinced. I'll see if I can get someone who is more knowledgeable then myself to help with an id but a location would help.
 
Welsh Peregrine said:
I have decided all Herptile Field Guide authors need shooting - none of them seem to focus on the features useful to identify specimens - long descriptions without focusing on which features differ, and which may be suggestive! (Or indeed they are contradictory - one species is distinguished by having 5 claws on the front feet, yet later another species is mentioned as possessing the same feature!!!) However, as far as I can tell, the first picture is indeed the Serrated Hinged Terrapin, Pelusios sinuatus, recognised by its saw edge to the rear of the shell, common in rivers, lakes and pans in N. Transvaal and N. Kwazulu Natal. Not quite certain of the second, but happiest with Mashona Hinged Terrapin, P. rhodesianus, which has a more domed shell than other species, and the head pattern seems to fit better - small populations in N. Zululand and Durban - probably replaced in Kruger by Pan H T, P. subniger.
Click to expand...

I do agree. A guide where it concentrates on what you can see in the field without catching them is much needed.
 
Steve Babbs said:
No idea.ersonally I think I'm special needs in reptile identification!
Click to expand...

I think we all are Steve, many, especially frogs and Lizards, can't be done without an in hand examination.

Even snakes are often not as simple as you'd think, often looking nothing like illustrations.


Andy
 
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