Join for FREE
It only takes a minute!
Discover the ZEISS Digital Nature Hub

Welcome to BirdForum.
BirdForum is the net's largest birding community, dedicated to wild birds and birding, and is absolutely FREE! You are most welcome to register for an account, which allows you to take part in lively discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.

Swarovski NL 8x42 - First Impressions

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 1 votes, 5.00 average.
Old Thursday 13th August 2020, 23:54   #251
etudiant
Registered User
BF Supporter 2020

 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: New York
Posts: 4,877
Congratulations to Swaro for breaking new ground, the $3000+ mainstream binocular.
Much more conventional and much less expensive that superb Nikon WX, it represents the emergence of a new super alpha category.
Barring some really unexpected flaw, this glass should cement Swaro's dominance in sport optics.
etudiant is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019 2020 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Thursday 13th August 2020, 23:58   #252
henry link
Registered User

 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: north carolina
Posts: 4,680
Chosun,

IMO, the simple solution is to place the baffles very close the the source of the offending internal reflections. For instance, knife edged baffles attached directly to the backs of the objective lens or focusing lens cells if that's where the reflections are coming from. Trying to baffle those reflections from too far behind them (by using the prism apertures as baffles for instance) is what leads to excessive off-axis vignetting.

Henry

Last edited by henry link : Friday 14th August 2020 at 00:11.
henry link is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 14th August 2020, 01:02   #253
NDhunter
Registered User
 
NDhunter's Avatar

 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Northern plains
Posts: 4,478
I read the review from Allbinos of the 12x42 NL and it was very thorough. One thing Alek mentions more than once is the poor blackening of the interior of the Swarovski NL. I have noticed this myself on other Swarovski binoculars and have mentioned it before on the forum.
My mention is because in my experience when observing with a flashlight (torch) inside the objective the
differences are real, Swarovski uses not a very flat black paint but something more semi-gloss. I also find
it very strange. The only thing I can think of is that their reasoning is that flat paints can powder or flake off more easily, and cause internal specks on lenses, etc.
For those that can compare with other binoculars, look for yourself.

Jerry

Last edited by NDhunter : Friday 14th August 2020 at 01:06.
NDhunter is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 14th August 2020, 01:26   #254
[email protected]
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Colorado
Posts: 3,262
Quote:
Originally Posted by NDhunter View Post
I read the review from Allbinos of the 12x42 NL and it was very thorough. One thing Alek mentions more than once is the poor blackening of the interior of the Swarovski NL. I have noticed this myself on other Swarovski binoculars and have mentioned it before on the forum.
My mention is because in my experience when observing with a flashlight (torch) inside the objective the
differences are real, Swarovski uses not a very flat black paint but something more semi-gloss. I also find
it very strange. The only thing I can think of is that their reasoning is that flat paints can powder or flake off more easily, and cause internal specks on lenses, etc.
For those that can compare with other binoculars, look for yourself.

Jerry
Jerry. Interesting point. I am going to look for that.
denco@comcast.n is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 14th August 2020, 07:08   #255
Torview
Registered User
 
Torview's Avatar

 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Dartmoor.
Posts: 2,360
I don`t think the veiling glare issue bothers the majority of Swarovski buyers, I remember having a discussion about it with two Birders at the Somerset levels, both like me at the time using an 8x32SV trying to see a Great White Egret, I was complaining about the VG so they offered me to try theirs, same issue but they just did`nt/could`nt see it and refused to accept Swarovski would allow such a problem on their premium offering.

Given the sheer number of 32mm SV`s out there in the field its not affecting sales.
Torview is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 14th August 2020, 07:13   #256
Torview
Registered User
 
Torview's Avatar

 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Dartmoor.
Posts: 2,360
I`v read plenty of good comments about the ergonomics of the NL, what about the balance ?, have they taken weight out of the objective end like the SF ?, I find I can hold the SF up seemingly indefinitely without strain, this is one of its greatest attributes IMHO, is the FRP more about helping with the weight and fatigue that it imparts quite quickly more than stabilisation ?
Torview is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 14th August 2020, 07:35   #257
Vespobuteo
Registered User

 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Utopia
Posts: 2,187
Quote:
Originally Posted by NDhunter View Post
I read the review from Allbinos of the 12x42 NL and it was very thorough. One thing Alek mentions more than once is the poor blackening of the interior of the Swarovski NL. I have noticed this myself on other Swarovski binoculars and have mentioned it before on the forum.
My mention is because in my experience when observing with a flashlight (torch) inside the objective the
differences are real, Swarovski uses not a very flat black paint but something more semi-gloss. I also find
it very strange. The only thing I can think of is that their reasoning is that flat paints can powder or flake off more easily, and cause internal specks on lenses, etc.
For those that can compare with other binoculars, look for yourself.

Jerry
I've had that thought also, but has that been a problem in any of the alphas that has been produced over the years?

I'm not a chemist but I assume it's some kind of anodizing that is used and not regular "paint" so the risk for "flakes" would perhaps be minor? And I guess some kind of treatment is used, even inside the tubes, so why not make it darker?

"Anodic films are generally much stronger and more adherent than most types of paint and metal plating, but also more brittle. This makes them less likely to crack and peel from ageing and wear, but more susceptible to cracking from thermal stress."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anodizing
Vespobuteo is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 14th August 2020, 07:55   #258
Vespobuteo
Registered User

 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Utopia
Posts: 2,187
Quote:
Originally Posted by Torview View Post
I don`t think the veiling glare issue bothers the majority of Swarovski buyers, I remember having a discussion about it with two Birders at the Somerset levels, both like me at the time using an 8x32SV trying to see a Great White Egret, I was complaining about the VG so they offered me to try theirs, same issue but they just did`nt/could`nt see it and refused to accept Swarovski would allow such a problem on their premium offering.

Given the sheer number of 32mm SV`s out there in the field its not affecting sales.
98% of binocular buyers are probably not visiting the birdforum binoculars section...

Personally I wouldn't change my SV:s for any other alpha, since there are a lot of factors to consider, and glare is just one of them. It's still the best overall bin, for my needs, others might disagree. But if paying 3k, it would be nice with at least some improvement in glare handling as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Torview View Post
I`v read plenty of good comments about the ergonomics of the NL, what about the balance ?, have they taken weight out of the objective end like the SF ?, I find I can hold the SF up seemingly indefinitely without strain, this is one of its greatest attributes IMHO, is the FRP more about helping with the weight and fatigue that it imparts quite quickly more than stabilisation ?
I suspect the massive bridge will move the balance point further back to the eyes.

Weight is a double edged sword. It contributes to stability but increases fatigue and perhaps 30-50 grams less would have been more optimal for a 42mm bin. The SF is for sure superb in that department.
Vespobuteo is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 14th August 2020, 09:27   #259
quincy88
Registered User

 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Xxxxxx
Posts: 113
I'm looking forward to my NLs. Never used them. Bought a pair of 10s. Traded my SF 10s in to be able to afford them. The SFs were the best binoculars I've ever used. period. Hoping Swarovski lives up to the hype. I believe them.
I have several Swarovkis. I own the 15x56 SLCs, the 8x25 CLs, and the BTX 85. All wonderful.
__________________
-as you were, q
quincy88 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 14th August 2020, 12:05   #260
kabsetz
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Finland
Posts: 1,529
NL's are balanced such that the center of gravity is pretty exactly where the body shape directs your hand, meaning the narrow part of the "waistline" of this new form factor. The form is very successful in my view, although how well it fits depends on you hand size.

- Kimmo
kabsetz is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 14th August 2020, 12:18   #261
arran
Registered User
 
arran's Avatar

 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Belgium
Posts: 158
Testing NL pure

In August House of Outdoors gave me the possibility to test the new range of NL binoculars.Thanks for great service and technical background info!!
3 types were present : 8X42, 10X42 and 12X42.
Conditions of testing : warm hot and very sunny weather in a nice Dutch shopping street /interior darker environment of the shop itself.
Persons present : myself (keen birdwatcher) and my wife with her 8,5X42 EL latest model fieldpro.I have been using the Zeiss SF 10X42 during the last 2 years.

General look : these bins are beautiful !At least my taste. The central focus drive in nicely positioned.
Optics impression : microcontrast is superb (tested on lichens on the old roofs) and to my taste slightly better than the EL.I had a quite pronounced pop-up effect , the same as you have sometimes in photography.
The FOV is just mind-blowing and you get totally immersed into the field of view!!
What surprised me however , was the appearance of a light flare ring , which was more pronounced with the 10X version.This phenomenon did not disappear while directing the bin into another direction.With my wife's bin , this was not the case , and no flare was seen!.
I tried changing the eye relief by pulling out the ocular , but no big change.
The flare was really concentrated in the outer circle.I was standing in a shadowed street part and looking into all directions!
The phenomenon was not there while using the bin in the shop
Balance : superb!Center of gravity seems to have shifted to the front.
Focus drive : in the end , Swarovski managed to produce a smooth working drive.
However , the 12X bin , was not no smoothy operating , perhaps due to pre production variation?
My wife's impression : while wearing glasses , she had no problem at all , using the NL pure , the is still convinced , of all bins , SV are the best!
Conclusion ; I am convinced that Swarovski managed to unite all positives of the alpha bins in one new product : the microcontrast of the noctivid , the balance of the zeiss sf and also the increased FOV of the SF.
A last word about the accessoire that can be useful to stabilise the bin: it really works , especially with the 12X bin , however , it protrudes in the height of the bin , and I don't know how it will physically disturb while using these bins intensively.

Last edited by arran : Friday 14th August 2020 at 13:27.
arran is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 14th August 2020, 12:22   #262
SeldomPerched
Registered User

 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: England
Posts: 593
Quote:
Originally Posted by jremmons View Post
I know some people find the Nikon EDG dark when to my eyes it simply emphasises colors differently.

Justin
I thought this just early this morning when using the EDG 7. Good to know that feeling is supported.

Tom
SeldomPerched is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 14th August 2020, 12:25   #263
SeldomPerched
Registered User

 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: England
Posts: 593
Quote:
Originally Posted by elkcub View Post
Can you share your information source for these data?

Ed
Nice to see someone else realizes the word 'data' is plural. Civilization is not dead after all!

Tom
SeldomPerched is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 14th August 2020, 12:56   #264
SeldomPerched
Registered User

 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: England
Posts: 593
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobMorane View Post
Thanks to You Canip.
Actually, it's your own review, together with Jan and Gijs ones that pushed me to do the 2 hours trip to Thonon this morning.
I wanted to bring something useful to this forum (for once )

Hi Rob, much appreciated along with Canilp, Jan, Gijs... and Beth!

Sounds like a great place to try them out. Correction: looks and sounds - thank you for the pictures!

Tom
SeldomPerched is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 14th August 2020, 13:06   #265
PYRTLE
Registered User
 
PYRTLE's Avatar

 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: North Norfolk
Posts: 9,914
Quote:
Originally Posted by quincy88 View Post
I'm looking forward to my NLs. Never used them. Bought a pair of 10s. Traded my SF 10s in to be able to afford them. The SFs were the best binoculars I've ever used. period. Hoping Swarovski lives up to the hype. I believe them.
I have several Swarovkis. I own the 15x56 SLCs, the 8x25 CLs, and the BTX 85. All wonderful.
Good luck, I 'm sure they will be wonderful to use, coupled with your experience of the Zeiss SF. I am amazed that some BF members have jumped ship already and cancelled their pre orders due to initial comments posted on here. Fickle or not, who knows?
__________________
Pat
PYRTLE is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 14th August 2020, 13:10   #266
SeldomPerched
Registered User

 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: England
Posts: 593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chosun Juan View Post
Lol I was just thinking that exact same thing !
Chosun
AND Zeiss had already used a double bridge design in their 20th century Dialyts and then gone back to single bridge in the the FLs before Sw resurrected the double bridge, apparently using the Dialyts as inspiration for the EL.

(Correct me if I am wrong about the inspiration inference in the last part of the sentence, but that is what I have heard.)

Tom
SeldomPerched is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 14th August 2020, 13:36   #267
SeldomPerched
Registered User

 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: England
Posts: 593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chosun Juan View Post
Stephanie - thanks,

Yes, I believe that is the aim - providing that 'ease of view' (tolerance for misalignment/ positioning) that the SV's are famous for. As it is a German term and somewhat of Swarovski's secret sauce design recipe, I'm not 100% that is the optical engineering translation, but it is to do with the 'edge bundle'

You would be interested in this discussion of when the term first emerged here on BF:- https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...Cci8W-KI-o6kP6

Are there then mechanical design ways, etc of combating the extra stray light paths that are the compromise of this design choice ? (a mostly welcome one in practical use I find - such as in not perfectly aligned snap viewing where the rarity offers you ~0.5sec of fleeting view ! :)

For safety sake (if there is such a standard/ accepted practice) - what would be an appropriate angle from the sun to start to see it's effects in various forms of image degradation ? (given that in practice people roar around all over the sky, bins to eyes, perhaps chasing a sound, or glimpse, without always knowing exactly where the sun is - at least I do). Conversely what sort of an angle without glare/ loss of contrast/ colour, is regarded as great performance for a binocular ?






Chosun
With a camera lens you use a lens hood to obviate much of this problem. Is there are a reason why binoculars never (to my limited knowledge anyway) have slide-out hoods which you could push back in for stowing back in the case? I can see that the hoods might have to be angled rather than straight but it seems a good solution if not desperately attractive. They could be clip-on/slip-on/screw-in accessories for instance.

Last edited by SeldomPerched : Friday 14th August 2020 at 13:38.
SeldomPerched is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 14th August 2020, 13:36   #268
GLOBETROTTER
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: MADRID
Posts: 259
" light flare ring " on the outer area of FOV !!!!!

This is a no go for this binoculars, this issue remember me when i bought a very early sample of 8x42 SF, Huge green cast and muted view ( To my Eyes ) and crescent orange flare on the lower part of FOV, pictures posted on this forum.
At least that issue was visible close to the sun not looking everywhere like on new NL.

Now i have a cherry unit black armour 8x42 SF.....a keeper, just slight green cast and amazing flare, glare performance with nome of the faults found on my first sample.

New model new problems...........for me better to wait but i will go on September to check one sample myself.
GLOBETROTTER is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 14th August 2020, 13:59   #269
[email protected]
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Colorado
Posts: 3,262
Quote:
Originally Posted by GLOBETROTTER View Post
" light flare ring " on the outer area of FOV !!!!!

This is a no go for this binoculars, this issue remember me when i bought a very early sample of 8x42 SF, Huge green cast and muted view ( To my Eyes ) and crescent orange flare on the lower part of FOV, pictures posted on this forum.
At least that issue was visible close to the sun not looking everywhere like on new NL.

Now i have a cherry unit black armour 8x42 SF.....a keeper, just slight green cast and amazing flare, glare performance with nome of the faults found on my first sample.

New model new problems...........for me better to wait but i will go on September to check one sample myself.
I experienced the same crescent orange flare on the lower part of FOV on two new samples of the Zeiss SF 8x42. I gave up on them. They just didn't work for me.
denco@comcast.n is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 14th August 2020, 14:16   #270
GLOBETROTTER
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: MADRID
Posts: 259
Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
I experienced the same crescent orange flare on the lower part of FOV on two new samples of the Zeiss SF 8x42. I gave up on them. They just didn't work for me.
My 8X42 SF black body is perfect, the only complain is a dark spot on the outer side of left barrel, i don't see it unless i look for it.
This unit is so good that i don't mind this back spot.

I am shock to hear about light flare ring on the NL specially on the 10X42, During development and testing they don't take out their binocular and check it under real field conditions before selling it ?
GLOBETROTTER is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 14th August 2020, 14:45   #271
Gray C
Newbie birder
 
Gray C's Avatar

 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Cheshire UK
Posts: 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeldomPerched View Post
Nice to see someone else realizes the word 'data' is plural. Civilization is not dead after all!

Tom
Indeed, a mistake that is often seen, just like affect and effect.
__________________
Swarovski SLC 8x42; Leica Ultravid 8x20; Hawke Frontier ED X 8x32; Carl Zeiss Jena 8x30; Swift Grand Prix 8x40; Opticron MM4 60 with 15-45 SDLv2 zoom.

Last edited by Gray C : Friday 14th August 2020 at 14:55.
Gray C is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 14th August 2020, 14:51   #272
Gray C
Newbie birder
 
Gray C's Avatar

 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Cheshire UK
Posts: 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeldomPerched View Post
Nice to see someone else realizes the word 'data' is plural. Civilization is not dead after all!

Tom
Just a thought. Isn't realize predominantly used in North America rather than the UK?
__________________
Swarovski SLC 8x42; Leica Ultravid 8x20; Hawke Frontier ED X 8x32; Carl Zeiss Jena 8x30; Swift Grand Prix 8x40; Opticron MM4 60 with 15-45 SDLv2 zoom.

Last edited by Gray C : Friday 14th August 2020 at 14:53.
Gray C is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 14th August 2020, 14:58   #273
Gray C
Newbie birder
 
Gray C's Avatar

 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Cheshire UK
Posts: 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeldomPerched View Post
With a camera lens you use a lens hood to obviate much of this problem. Is there are a reason why binoculars never (to my limited knowledge anyway) have slide-out hoods which you could push back in for stowing back in the case? I can see that the hoods might have to be angled rather than straight but it seems a good solution if not desperately attractive. They could be clip-on/slip-on/screw-in accessories for instance.

Seems like a good idea.
__________________
Swarovski SLC 8x42; Leica Ultravid 8x20; Hawke Frontier ED X 8x32; Carl Zeiss Jena 8x30; Swift Grand Prix 8x40; Opticron MM4 60 with 15-45 SDLv2 zoom.
Gray C is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 14th August 2020, 15:28   #274
Gray C
Newbie birder
 
Gray C's Avatar

 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Cheshire UK
Posts: 90
I hope this problem with flare is not too bad. I'll be trying them on Tuesday morning
__________________
Swarovski SLC 8x42; Leica Ultravid 8x20; Hawke Frontier ED X 8x32; Carl Zeiss Jena 8x30; Swift Grand Prix 8x40; Opticron MM4 60 with 15-45 SDLv2 zoom.
Gray C is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 14th August 2020, 15:51   #275
james holdsworth
Consulting Biologist
 
james holdsworth's Avatar

 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: ontario
Posts: 3,356
Quote:
Originally Posted by PYRTLE View Post
Good luck, I 'm sure they will be wonderful to use, coupled with your experience of the Zeiss SF. I am amazed that some BF members have jumped ship already and cancelled their pre orders due to initial comments posted on here. Fickle or not, who knows?

I’m more amazed that some people have traded what they call the best binoculars they’ve ever had, for a sight unseen unit…
james holdsworth is offline  
Reply With Quote
Advertisement
Reply


Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Some impressions - MHG and M7 8x30 vs Conquest and SF 8x42 pbjosh Nikon 10 Friday 1st February 2019 13:30
Trinovid HD 8x32 & 8x42 first impressions Foss Leica 3 Thursday 10th January 2019 22:31
Impressions of the 2015 ZRS HD 8x42 cnick6 Zen Ray 12 Sunday 19th April 2015 06:04
8x42 BA Trinovid impressions etc Leica 10 Monday 12th February 2007 16:58
Vortex Stokes DLS 8x42 First Impressions PCH BIRDER Binoculars 2 Thursday 23rd November 2006 02:16

{googleads}

Fatbirder's Top 1000 Birding Websites

Help support BirdForum

Page generated in 0.14153099 seconds with 39 queries
All times are GMT. The time now is 14:35.